My first shooter arrived today; need help with unit markings

[Mike B]

I know most of you will find this hard to believe, but I have been collecting Lugers for over 40 years and have never had any desire to shoot a Luger. I have always felt that they were there strictly for observation and admiration. But I must admit that after reading several posting on the forum, I felt that before it was too late, I should find out what it was like to fire a Luger. So I made up my mind to buy a â??shooterâ?�. An artillery was what I wanted; what could be more fun to shoot than a long barrel Luger? Well, I was fortunate in finding a beautifully restored all matching (well almost) artillery with a stock at a very fair price. It arrived today and much to my surprise, it is indeed a gorgeous Luger. It is wonderfully restored; by whom I do not know. To my further surprise there are unit markings on the back grip strap. I have a feeling, however, they were placed there during or after the restoration. The magazine even matches, but it too appears to match as a result of the restoration. One big plus is the fact that the iron on the stock looks to be legit but the stock I think is not. The serial number is exactly like the Luger serial and it fits the Luger perfectly. It does not fit any of my other Lugers as well as it fits this artillery. All these opinions are from my own untrained observations, merely years of amateur experience. I welcome the expert comments from the forum.

Thanks, Mike

[thegundude]

Nice!

It's almost too pretty to shoot...

[Jan C Still]

Mike
M/anchor / 1201 / N signifies that your Luger(at least the frame) is German Navy issue (See Weimar lugers page 204). Artillery Luger, sn 9712g, is marked M/anchor / 1195 / N.
Excellent unit marked shooter.
Jan

[Dwight Gruber]

Jan,

I've looked in Weimar Lugers and Costanzo; does the manner in which this marking is applied, and its characteristics, look proper to you?

Note, this is not an attempt to "tear this piece down." I understand that these marks may have been pantographed--this is indeed the case with Alphabet Commercial Kriegsmarine pistols, and appears to be the case with the guns pictured in Weimar Lugers--I'm not familiar with them in detail, and just wonder for the education of my eye if this mark falls within the known range of characteristics.

--Dwight

[Jan C Still]

Dwight
The N property marked LP08 have a different pattern of marking than most other Weimar Navy marked Lugers. These markings are mostly pantographed.
The three Navy LP08 shown in Weimar Lugers have the following inscription pattern:
page 93 LP08 M/anchor/1282/N
page 224 LP08 E/M(2)/1561/N
page 225 LP08 M/anchor/1692/N

The M/anchor or E/M is over the property number which is over the N.
This pattern is also shown in the Luger illustrated above: M/anchor/1201/N

The sharp end to the lines in the inscription of M/anchor/1201/N may indicate engraving instead of pantographing. Ron Wood is a real expert in determining if markings are engraved or pantographed.

What are the uncharacteristic parts of the markings that you are refering to?

Jan

[Dwight Gruber]

Jan,

I don't know that there is anything uncharacteristic at all--I haven't the experience. I hope to learn whether or not the M, the design and position of the anchor, and the appearance of the numbers are within the realm of authenticity, so I can make the determination myself the next time I see something like this.

--Dwight

[Heinz]

Sweet piece. This is probably one of those shooters you will become reluctant to shoot. I have one like that.

Dwight, as Jan noted the Navy Dockyards seem to have been quite fond of pantographs for marking. I suspect that there may even have been pantograph equipment on some of the larger vessels in the fleet. If anyone has any information on the machine shop equipment on the larger naval vessels it would be interesting.

[Lugerdoc]

Mike, Any Navy marking on the wood of your matching stock? Nice find at a shooter price. Have you fired it yet for accuracy? If so, I'd appreciate your comments to my inquiry "LPO8 accuracy" in the shooting section. Thanks, TH

[Mike B]

Thanks for all the input; very interesting. Tom, no marking on the stock, but I think the wood is a repo, however the iron appears to be legit. I have not fired it yet; probably Saturday. I will report then.

Mike

[Ron Wood]

I am a little bit at a loss to determine how the grip markings were made. They do look more like engraving than pantograph, but the termination of the lines is very odd. If I were to venture a WAG, I would say that it was pantographed with a ball cutter rather than the usual straight sided or V cutter. The irregularity of the lines might indicate that the template for the pantograph was hand made. Could be modern or it could be a field or shipboard expedient.

[Jan C Still]

Ron
Thanks for your expert help.

Today, it is not difficult to apply pantographed unit markings to a Weimar period Luger. The patterns for such pantographs have been found in one disabled fakers work shop. It is very difficult to determine if some pantographed Navy unit markings are correct. Some time ago, a collector friend sold his extensive Weimar Navy Luger collection because it was so difficult to determine what is correct and what is not. Caution should be used in collecting these Weimar Era Navy Lugers.
Jan

[Big Norm]

Mike,
I am happy to hear that you got something at what you consider a fair price and are going to have fun with it. But I am green with envy at your photography. Outstanding pictures.
Big Norm

[Mike B]

Thanks Norm.
I found that the old 8mm home movie lamps mounted on a tripod improve digital pictures quite a bit. They are available on ebay if you look hard enough. Although you might end up with more bars than lamps as the lamps don't last very long.

Mike

[Big Norm]

Mike,
I bought a nice digital camera and some software as a Christmas present to myself. I have been so busy since then that these presents are still in the box. Some day I am going to swing over to Tinkers house with a cold six pack of something and some of my Lugers to take some much needed lessons in photography. Maybe, if I am real lucky I will get to meet Jerry Burney and show him some of my holsters. Then I am going to do some real bragging on this forum. I promise. In the mean time, all I can do is sit here and be jealous of talented people such as yourself. I really liked your close ups. Nice clarity. Showed your Luger very well.
Big Norm

[demilio]

I never really took an interest in the Luger until the last few days, when I have been reading up on the artillery models. A fine shooter artillery Luger like this is my dream pistol right now: the aesthetic of the long barrel and unusual action have just captured my imagination, I guess, so I've been reading up!

[MFC]

Hi Will,
Sounds like you have a really bad case of Lugeritus. Be careful, it's very contagious. It can make your head swell and your wallet shrink.
Mike C.