Scope for LP08

mauro · 02-02-2007, 04:28 PM

Hello Gents,
Hereafter some nice photos of my ZF 41/1 with the complete set of LP08 attaching items made by W. Aulke in Warendorf (Germany), see advertising below.
These set was made in the 1960 Ã¢?? 1970 period. It is composed by two different couples of attaching items.
What it is currently mounted (1 and 2) is the permanent solution. In this case the rear attaching tool takes the place of the rear tangent sight of the LP08.
The other solution (3 and 4) is a more flexible solution that allows mounting and dismounting the scope easily. The attaching tools (3 and 4) are numerated and with a different shape to better fit the barrel. The flexible solution could be used not only with the LP08 but with others long barrel models.

Concerning the ZF 41/1 scope, it is an enhanced version of the well-know ZF 41 - the standard K 98 sniper scope of the German WEHRMACHT. It was produced from 1943 until the end of the war. This later version is distinguished clearly from its predecessor by its elevation ring and the elevation ring locking spring.
Manufactured in the Etablissements Charles AufiÃ?Â¨re in Pantin, France, the mass production of this model was begun only after the disastrous defeat in Stalingrad and stopped already a year later. Therefore, the ZF 41/1 is one of the rarest versions of the ZF 41. The scope is numbered and marked with the code Ã¢??kovÃ¢?Â that actually means Etablissements Charles AufiÃ?Â¨re in Pantin, France.
The items numbered 5 and 6 are the rear and front rain protection tubes. They are mounted on the second photo.
The magnification of the scope is really impressive for a Ã¢??small toyÃ¢?Â only 13.6 cm (5.35 inches).

spartacus38 · 02-02-2007, 05:04 PM

Wow, that is so neat. I would love to be able to attach a variable power

scope to one of my artillerys. It is difficult for me to be able to see both

the target and the sights.

Do you know if such a setup is currently available from anyone?

Shooting an artillery is so much fun.

Bob Young Spartacus38@charter.net

mauro · 02-02-2007, 05:13 PM

Hi Bob,
To be honest I was searching for this item since a while.
This set is not made anymore.
Until now I have seen three or four of these setup but always for sale with the related arty.

Good luck.
Mauro

Steinar · 02-03-2007, 03:20 AM

wow.. how do you find these goodies??
Congratulations with a great find!

..let me know if you find another

btw. can you describe the reticle?

mauro · 02-03-2007, 04:06 AM

Hello Steinar,
I have found the set in Germany.
Hereafter a picture of a Lp08 mounting the previously described kit.

In my opinion, the fact that the ZF41 has been selected to be used with the LP08 is mainly based on the small size and weight of the scope (the weight is important because it is moving with the barrel) and to the fact that the scope is set to working into a range 100-800 meters as the rear tangent site of the LP08. Therefore it could be considered has a correct replacement of the rear tangent site maintaining the same specification of the gun.

Concerning the reticle, I am not really expert on this matter but I will try to describe what I see. The vision is absolutely clear and I see a sort of line that ends in the center of the lens. This line help me pointing the target. With the adjusting ring you can easily tune the scope to have a clear vision of the target.

I hope this helps, but I repeat I am not a very expert shooter, I have bought this set for collecting purposes. Some more pictures are available on my web site.
Cheers,
Mauro

Steinar · 02-03-2007, 08:54 AM

it's on my "must have list"

would not shoot with it, as the recoil migh mess things up. I have seen these scopes without the LP08 mounting for about 4000Nkr here in Norway ( about $500), I have been thinking of making the mounting attachments myself.. but will never be the same. Thanks for sharing Mauro

Hugh · 02-03-2007, 09:42 AM

I saw one of these at the HGCA gunshow in Houuston a couple of weeks ago. I did not ask the price as I knew I could not afford it!

wlyon · 02-03-2007, 11:18 AM

Mauro Very interesting! You have some neat toys!! Bill

MikeP · 02-05-2007, 12:35 AM

I bought a LP 08 back in the 70's that looks like somebody tried to set this up. It was missing the rear sight and had some extra drilling in the base area.
I found an original sight but it doesn't fit right. They may have wallered the slot a bit.
Anybody ever comes up with rhe rig I might trade the pistol-good bore and great looking and matching.

mauro · 02-11-2007, 03:51 PM

Hello again Steinar,
hereafter you can find a photo of the ZF41 reticle.
This is exactly what you see pointing with the ZF 41 scope.
Have fun.
Mauro

Steinar · 03-28-2007, 04:21 AM

Thanks! I find it interesting to know how the reticle is, as I'm now in search for a scope that is as close to the real thing as possible..
Perhaps someone out there has any suggestions?

Big Norm · 03-28-2007, 06:02 PM

I am going back a bit with my poor memory, but I think that someone on this forum once mentioned that it was illegal in the USA to mount a scope on an artillery.
Big Norm

Stu · 03-28-2007, 07:06 PM

Interesting comment Norm, do you remember any more details. There are plenty of scoped handguns, so is it something specfic to Lugers ?

Big Norm · 03-28-2007, 08:42 PM

Stu,
I believe it was specific to the artillery Luger. I'd have to go back to the archives to find it. I remember that someone was selling an artillery with a scope on it on the internet and there were comments made here about it. It struck me as odd too, at the time, since I also have seen pistols in hunting magazines and else where with scopes on them. I also remember that that pistol did not sell. I remember looking around to see if there was a difference between a pistol scope and a rifle scope. But life got in the way of my getting information on that last thought. As soon as I finish my income taxes, I will do the search. But don't wait for me since I have been thinking about finishing my taxes for over a month.
Big Norm

Stu · 03-30-2007, 06:51 PM

Ditto

HardBaller · 03-30-2007, 08:38 PM

Hugh,

I saw the same set up at the HGCA and the gent shows it at all local shows, HGCA, Saxtent, High Caliber, etc. But I don't think he knows this story. I asked about the piece, and it's accompanied Arty and he told me it was "picked up" in the 70's and he was not aware of the provenance.

In any event, he would not sell and was looking at it as a show piece only. Think I will print this out and share on next visit.

Tim
Houston, TX

Brownie · 04-13-2007, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Norm
...someone on this forum once mentioned that it was illegal in the USA to mount a scope on an artillery.

Maybe mounting an after-market scope required some modification, such as drilling, that may have disqualified the artillery as a C&R rather than making it outright illegal. Could this be what you are remembering Norm? Just a thought.

John Sabato · 04-13-2007, 03:22 PM

To the best of my knowledge, a C&R class NFA exempt Luger does not lose it's status just because you modify it with a scopemount... As long as it is composed of the original frame and upper receiver, it is still an Artillery...

Now if you change the serial numbered frame... that is a different story... then it is no longer an "Artillery" under the C&R NFA exeption... it would be considered whatever type of Luger that the donor frame came from... and you couldn't legally mount the stock on it.

From what I can see, the mounting system shown in Mauro's photos require no permanent modification of the artillery... just the temporary removal of the rear sight base...

Brownie · 04-13-2007, 04:18 PM

John:

I agree with your interpretation but simply suggest a question might exist if a scope were mounted "less temporary" than Mauro's. I don't think the rules on modifications are crystal clear as I remember seeing it debated on other forums. More commonly, the debate is over "sporterized" surplus rifles retaining C&R status. Obviously I defer to you guys. I'm trying to learn.

BTW, very nice scoped artillery, Mauro!

Jim

02-02-2007, 04:28 PM	#1
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Scope for LP08 Hello Gents, Hereafter some nice photos of my ZF 41/1 with the complete set of LP08 attaching items made by W. Aulke in Warendorf (Germany), see advertising below. These set was made in the 1960 Ã¢?? 1970 period. It is composed by two different couples of attaching items. What it is currently mounted (1 and 2) is the permanent solution. In this case the rear attaching tool takes the place of the rear tangent sight of the LP08. The other solution (3 and 4) is a more flexible solution that allows mounting and dismounting the scope easily. The attaching tools (3 and 4) are numerated and with a different shape to better fit the barrel. The flexible solution could be used not only with the LP08 but with others long barrel models. Concerning the ZF 41/1 scope, it is an enhanced version of the well-know ZF 41 - the standard K 98 sniper scope of the German WEHRMACHT. It was produced from 1943 until the end of the war. This later version is distinguished clearly from its predecessor by its elevation ring and the elevation ring locking spring. Manufactured in the Etablissements Charles AufiÃ?Â¨re in Pantin, France, the mass production of this model was begun only after the disastrous defeat in Stalingrad and stopped already a year later. Therefore, the ZF 41/1 is one of the rarest versions of the ZF 41. The scope is numbered and marked with the code Ã¢??kovÃ¢?Â that actually means Etablissements Charles AufiÃ?Â¨re in Pantin, France. The items numbered 5 and 6 are the rear and front rain protection tubes. They are mounted on the second photo. The magnification of the scope is really impressive for a Ã¢??small toyÃ¢?Â only 13.6 cm (5.35 inches). __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

02-02-2007, 05:13 PM	#3
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hi Bob, To be honest I was searching for this item since a while. This set is not made anymore. Until now I have seen three or four of these setup but always for sale with the related arty. Good luck. Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

02-03-2007, 03:20 AM	#4
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	wow.. how do you find these goodies?? Congratulations with a great find! ..let me know if you find another btw. can you describe the reticle? __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

02-03-2007, 04:06 AM	#5
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hello Steinar, I have found the set in Germany. Hereafter a picture of a Lp08 mounting the previously described kit. In my opinion, the fact that the ZF41 has been selected to be used with the LP08 is mainly based on the small size and weight of the scope (the weight is important because it is moving with the barrel) and to the fact that the scope is set to working into a range 100-800 meters as the rear tangent site of the LP08. Therefore it could be considered has a correct replacement of the rear tangent site maintaining the same specification of the gun. Concerning the reticle, I am not really expert on this matter but I will try to describe what I see. The vision is absolutely clear and I see a sort of line that ends in the center of the lens. This line help me pointing the target. With the adjusting ring you can easily tune the scope to have a clear vision of the target. I hope this helps, but I repeat I am not a very expert shooter, I have bought this set for collecting purposes. Some more pictures are available on my web site. Cheers, Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

02-03-2007, 08:54 AM	#6
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	it's on my "must have list" would not shoot with it, as the recoil migh mess things up. I have seen these scopes without the LP08 mounting for about 4000Nkr here in Norway ( about $500), I have been thinking of making the mounting attachments myself.. but will never be the same. Thanks for sharing Mauro __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

02-02-2007, 05:04 PM	#2
spartacus38 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Lake Tahoe,CA. Posts: 695 Thanks: 0 Thanked 70 Times in 56 Posts	Wow, that is so neat. I would love to be able to attach a variable power scope to one of my artillerys. It is difficult for me to be able to see both the target and the sights. Do you know if such a setup is currently available from anyone? Shooting an artillery is so much fun. Bob Young Spartacus38@charter.net

02-03-2007, 09:42 AM	#7
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	I saw one of these at the HGCA gunshow in Houuston a couple of weeks ago. I did not ask the price as I knew I could not afford it! __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

02-03-2007, 11:18 AM	#8
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,629 Thanks: 3,168 Thanked 2,551 Times in 952 Posts	Mauro Very interesting! You have some neat toys!! Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

02-05-2007, 12:35 AM	#9
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	I bought a LP 08 back in the 70's that looks like somebody tried to set this up. It was missing the rear sight and had some extra drilling in the base area. I found an original sight but it doesn't fit right. They may have wallered the slot a bit. Anybody ever comes up with rhe rig I might trade the pistol-good bore and great looking and matching.

02-11-2007, 03:51 PM	#10
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hello again Steinar, hereafter you can find a photo of the ZF41 reticle. This is exactly what you see pointing with the ZF 41 scope. Have fun. Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

03-28-2007, 04:21 AM	#11
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Thanks! I find it interesting to know how the reticle is, as I'm now in search for a scope that is as close to the real thing as possible.. Perhaps someone out there has any suggestions? __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

03-28-2007, 06:02 PM	#12
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	I am going back a bit with my poor memory, but I think that someone on this forum once mentioned that it was illegal in the USA to mount a scope on an artillery. Big Norm

03-28-2007, 07:06 PM	#13
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Interesting comment Norm, do you remember any more details. There are plenty of scoped handguns, so is it something specfic to Lugers ?

03-28-2007, 08:42 PM	#14
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Stu, I believe it was specific to the artillery Luger. I'd have to go back to the archives to find it. I remember that someone was selling an artillery with a scope on it on the internet and there were comments made here about it. It struck me as odd too, at the time, since I also have seen pistols in hunting magazines and else where with scopes on them. I also remember that that pistol did not sell. I remember looking around to see if there was a difference between a pistol scope and a rifle scope. But life got in the way of my getting information on that last thought. As soon as I finish my income taxes, I will do the search. But don't wait for me since I have been thinking about finishing my taxes for over a month. Big Norm

03-30-2007, 06:51 PM	#15
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Ditto

03-30-2007, 08:38 PM	#16
HardBaller User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Republic of Texas Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hugh, I saw the same set up at the HGCA and the gent shows it at all local shows, HGCA, Saxtent, High Caliber, etc. But I don't think he knows this story. I asked about the piece, and it's accompanied Arty and he told me it was "picked up" in the 70's and he was not aware of the provenance. In any event, he would not sell and was looking at it as a show piece only. Think I will print this out and share on next visit. Tim Houston, TX __________________ Better to Die On Your Feet Than Live On Your Knees

04-13-2007, 03:22 PM	#18
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	To the best of my knowledge, a C&R class NFA exempt Luger does not lose it's status just because you modify it with a scopemount... As long as it is composed of the original frame and upper receiver, it is still an Artillery... Now if you change the serial numbered frame... that is a different story... then it is no longer an "Artillery" under the C&R NFA exeption... it would be considered whatever type of Luger that the donor frame came from... and you couldn't legally mount the stock on it. From what I can see, the mounting system shown in Mauro's photos require no permanent modification of the artillery... just the temporary removal of the rear sight base... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-13-2007, 04:18 PM	#19
Brownie User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Georgia Posts: 42 Thanks: 8 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	John: I agree with your interpretation but simply suggest a question might exist if a scope were mounted "less temporary" than Mauro's. I don't think the rules on modifications are crystal clear as I remember seeing it debated on other forums. More commonly, the debate is over "sporterized" surplus rifles retaining C&R status. Obviously I defer to you guys. I'm trying to learn. BTW, very nice scoped artillery, Mauro! Jim