Markings on grip screws and ejector

Steinar · 10-30-2006, 02:15 PM

A neat thing with Lugers are all the markings

Anyone know the type and era of the Lugers with such markings?

policeluger · 10-30-2006, 02:22 PM

I can't see it well, is it an inspectors stamp for an Erfurt made Luger?

Steinar · 10-30-2006, 02:55 PM

away from 'office' so can't take a closer look, but for me it looks like Simson and a Mauser mark..

Edward Tinker · 10-30-2006, 03:33 PM

It does look like a Simson marking on the grip, can't see the other one clear enough. If a Simson, then it could be a replacement for a rework, or from a simson made gun.

Time frame for a Simson rework would be 1919-1934 (most reworks completed probably 1919-1923), and new made parts from 1925-1934.

Ed

Dwight Gruber · 10-30-2006, 03:34 PM

The grip screw does indeed look like an inspector mark associated with Simson--Ed Tinker can probably post similar looking eagles from these guns.

The ejector looks like it might be an eagle over Jt2, a mark of a Heeres Zeugamt based in Ingolstadt. (An Erfurt ejector stamp would be stamped on its side, and much nearer the middle of the part.)

--Dwight

ps Ed, you beat me by a minute!

Lugerdoc · 10-31-2006, 11:19 AM

Steinar, I've observered thousands of these parts in the last 40 years, but never seen any like in your photos. I would expect to see the following markings on these parts: Erfurt prior to mid 1916 --- Crown over a letter, Imperial acceptance> Simson new production (none on reworks): E/6 or 33 on grip screw, but not ejectors. Kreighoff -- might find a hidden E/2 on some of the early production. Interestingly, all of these lugers were made on the same original machinery. Unmarked on DWM and Mauser production, unless replaced with an armour's spare or Depot marked, replacement part. TH

Steinar · 10-31-2006, 04:03 PM

I didn't expect to see these markings among other unused parts I recently purchased. Thanks for sharing some light on their origin.
These are the only two I found, probably sold a few like them here in Norway, not noticing the markings. Anyway.. as they appear unused (screw might be slightly used), so I would guess they are from ww2 armours arsenal, that came into Norwegian arsenal post ww2.

Dwight; you must have eyes like a hawk! I took a closer look at the mark, and yes, under the mark i found Jt2. Impressive.. You mention a Erfurt stamp on the other side, close to the centre, is that mark a simple dot?

Edward Tinker · 10-31-2006, 04:07 PM

If you sell the screw by itself MK.... Keep me in mind

Ed

Steinar · 11-01-2006, 05:54 AM

Will do Ed.. hard to put a value on one tiny little screw. It's in my little collection for now, but may pop out in the future.

Big Norm · 11-01-2006, 06:11 AM

Morgan,
your eyes are pretty good too. I have never looked for inspection marks on the ejector or grip screws other then on Erfurts. A lesson learned by me. The inspection marks on the Erfurt ejectors are pretty clear because of the hardness of the metal. The inspection marks on the grip screws can, sometimes, visually look like just a dot or pitting.
Big Norm

P.S. Nice going Dwight!

Edward Tinker · 11-01-2006, 11:58 AM

MK, I don't "need" a marked E/6, but of course wouldn't mind picking one up. That said, any marked item is good to have, E/6, Erfurt Crown marked, etc.

In my book, I list and show every place a simson is marked, both with serial number and with acceptance markings.

Ed

Dwight Gruber · 11-01-2006, 01:25 PM

Steinar,

Here is the inspector's stamp on an Erfurt ejector:

--Dwight

Steinar · 11-01-2006, 02:00 PM

So that's how it looks.. thanks. Do you have any info on Heeres Zeugamt?

Dwight Gruber · 11-01-2006, 02:28 PM

Steinar,

Do a search on this Forum and Jan Still's Forum for Heers Zeugamt and HzA--there have been a number of discussions. If you are a NAPCA member check that discussion forum as well.

Heers Zeugamt were Army weapons depots between the wars, storing arms (all kinds, not just P-08) and spare parts, and apparently the larger ones performed arms reworking as well.

Heers Zeugamt marks usually show up as an eagle superposed on letters and numbers--a complete one would be, for instance, HzAJT18, identifying the Heers Zeugamt depot #18 in Ingolstadt. There were many HzA, and depending on the size of the part and the practice of the depot the marks diverge from this--your extractor is one example, the isolated SU25 (HzA Depot #25, Spandau) is another.

--Dwight

Steinar · 11-01-2006, 02:48 PM

That's interesting.. something to look into, thanks

10-30-2006, 02:55 PM	#3
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	away from 'office' so can't take a closer look, but for me it looks like Simson and a Mauser mark.. __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

10-30-2006, 03:33 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,932 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,528 Times in 2,091 Posts	It does look like a Simson marking on the grip, can't see the other one clear enough. If a Simson, then it could be a replacement for a rework, or from a simson made gun. Time frame for a Simson rework would be 1919-1934 (most reworks completed probably 1919-1923), and new made parts from 1925-1934. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-31-2006, 11:19 AM	#6
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Steinar, I've observered thousands of these parts in the last 40 years, but never seen any like in your photos. I would expect to see the following markings on these parts: Erfurt prior to mid 1916 --- Crown over a letter, Imperial acceptance> Simson new production (none on reworks): E/6 or 33 on grip screw, but not ejectors. Kreighoff -- might find a hidden E/2 on some of the early production. Interestingly, all of these lugers were made on the same original machinery. Unmarked on DWM and Mauser production, unless replaced with an armour's spare or Depot marked, replacement part. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-31-2006, 04:03 PM	#7
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	I didn't expect to see these markings among other unused parts I recently purchased. Thanks for sharing some light on their origin. These are the only two I found, probably sold a few like them here in Norway, not noticing the markings. Anyway.. as they appear unused (screw might be slightly used), so I would guess they are from ww2 armours arsenal, that came into Norwegian arsenal post ww2. Dwight; you must have eyes like a hawk! I took a closer look at the mark, and yes, under the mark i found Jt2. Impressive.. You mention a Erfurt stamp on the other side, close to the centre, is that mark a simple dot? __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

10-31-2006, 04:07 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,932 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,528 Times in 2,091 Posts	If you sell the screw by itself MK.... Keep me in mind Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-30-2006, 02:15 PM	#1
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Markings on grip screws and ejector A neat thing with Lugers are all the markings Anyone know the type and era of the Lugers with such markings? __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

10-30-2006, 02:22 PM	#2
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	I can't see it well, is it an inspectors stamp for an Erfurt made Luger?

10-30-2006, 03:34 PM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,901 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,316 Times in 430 Posts	The grip screw does indeed look like an inspector mark associated with Simson--Ed Tinker can probably post similar looking eagles from these guns. The ejector looks like it might be an eagle over Jt2, a mark of a Heeres Zeugamt based in Ingolstadt. (An Erfurt ejector stamp would be stamped on its side, and much nearer the middle of the part.) --Dwight ps Ed, you beat me by a minute!

11-01-2006, 05:54 AM	#9
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Will do Ed.. hard to put a value on one tiny little screw. It's in my little collection for now, but may pop out in the future. __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

11-01-2006, 06:11 AM	#10
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Morgan, your eyes are pretty good too. I have never looked for inspection marks on the ejector or grip screws other then on Erfurts. A lesson learned by me. The inspection marks on the Erfurt ejectors are pretty clear because of the hardness of the metal. The inspection marks on the grip screws can, sometimes, visually look like just a dot or pitting. Big Norm P.S. Nice going Dwight!

11-01-2006, 11:58 AM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,932 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,528 Times in 2,091 Posts	MK, I don't "need" a marked E/6, but of course wouldn't mind picking one up. That said, any marked item is good to have, E/6, Erfurt Crown marked, etc. In my book, I list and show every place a simson is marked, both with serial number and with acceptance markings. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-01-2006, 01:25 PM	#12
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,901 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,316 Times in 430 Posts	Steinar, Here is the inspector's stamp on an Erfurt ejector: --Dwight

11-01-2006, 02:00 PM	#13
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	So that's how it looks.. thanks. Do you have any info on Heeres Zeugamt? __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

11-01-2006, 02:28 PM	#14
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,901 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,316 Times in 430 Posts	Steinar, Do a search on this Forum and Jan Still's Forum for Heers Zeugamt and HzA--there have been a number of discussions. If you are a NAPCA member check that discussion forum as well. Heers Zeugamt were Army weapons depots between the wars, storing arms (all kinds, not just P-08) and spare parts, and apparently the larger ones performed arms reworking as well. Heers Zeugamt marks usually show up as an eagle superposed on letters and numbers--a complete one would be, for instance, HzAJT18, identifying the Heers Zeugamt depot #18 in Ingolstadt. There were many HzA, and depending on the size of the part and the practice of the depot the marks diverge from this--your extractor is one example, the isolated SU25 (HzA Depot #25, Spandau) is another. --Dwight

11-01-2006, 02:48 PM	#15
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	That's interesting.. something to look into, thanks __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane