First post and pics of 1910 DWM

no4mk1 · 10-21-2006, 06:27 AM

Hi,

I've been trying to find out some things about the Luger my Grandfather left me when he passed in 1995. It is in pretty poor shape. It is a 1910 DWM in .30 Luger. My grandfather only said that he bought it from a friend after the war, (he was a merchant marine who sailed in both the Atlantic and Pacific) but never gave any details as to when. He told me that his friend "smoothed" the edges so it wouldn't snag in his pocket, and was the one who did the frightening little safety modification you'll see in the pics. It appears to have all matching numbers and no import stamp. However with the obvious over-polishing, who knows what it has. It appears to have some sort of regimental or police unit number on the front strap, but nothing else really obvious. Any insight into the history of this pistol would be greatly appreciated. I'm not interested in selling it, as it has incredible family significance to me, but I might be interested in re-barrelling it in 9mm if it wouldn't be befouling a collectible piece (given its condition I doubt that would be the case though). I am a big military firearms enthusiast (mostly WWII Enfields and U.S. military arms) but German pistols aren't my forte. ;-)

If a pic of any other part of the pistol would help, just let me know.

Thanks for reading!

On with the pictures...

Cheers,
Chris

no4mk1 · 10-21-2006, 07:04 AM

Hmmm... I seem to have forgotten to add that I believe that the serial number is 648 with a script a suffix.

It's very difficult to read.

Cheers,
Chris

Edward Tinker · 10-21-2006, 08:10 AM

Chris, well, this is an interesting one. Either previously reblued at one time or very worn (light markings).

A 1910 is very rare in itself (17k estimated made, however, the a suffix would be incorrect, should be "b", "c" or "d".

Your knobbie on the left, well, what the hell is that? (note, read over your thingy on the safety thingy and now understand)

Are you Positive about the caliber? i.e, that it is not 9mm? Note, it appears to have 8,xx (the xx being eitehr 8,82 or 8,83, 8,84 etc., the lands to lands measurement) If so, then the barrel is actually 9mm, and may have been lined as a 7.65mm (30 luger), I have a 1913 that is just like that, almost impossible to tell it has been relined...

From your angle, what does the unit marking look like on the front grip strap?

And welcome to the forum, and for the time being, don't change it in any way!

Ed

no4mk1 · 10-21-2006, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Edward Tinker
A 1910 is very rare in itself (17k estimated made, however, the a suffix would be incorrect, should be "b", "c" or "d".

Your knobbie on the left, well, what the hell is that? (note, read over your thingy on the safety thingy and now understand)

Are you Positive about the caliber? i.e, that it is not 9mm? Note, it appears to have 8,xx (the xx being eitehr 8,82 or 8,83, 8,84 etc., the lands to lands measurement) If so, then the barrel is actually 9mm, and may have been lined as a 7.65mm (30 luger), I have a 1913 that is just like that, almost impossible to tell it has been relined...

From your angle, what does the unit marking look like on the front grip strap?

After looking through the picture examples of the letter suffixes, it does look like it could be a script d. The initial upstroke, the bottom of the letter, and the final downstroke are visible, and they match the pictures. Unfortunately, the top half of the letter is gone.

It most definitely has a bottleneck .30 chamber, and now that you mention the possibility of a liner, there is a slight hint of a ridge on the inside of muzzle, and another inside the chamber. A 9mm chamber would be straight right up to the lands right?

There is virtually no blueing left on this pistol, or if it is blueing it has turned into a kind of brownish patina. There has been extensive polishing as evidenced by the rounding of all the sharp edges. Really, the only blueing left is underneath the toggle, and on the bolt.

To me the unit markings look like Z.U.1.10. (smaller font on last 10) and the markings on the barrel by the witness mark look like 8, 4.

As for the safety mod, my grandpa just said that his friend had very small hands and found it difficult to manipulate the safety so he added the stud to the saftey.

I put around 10 rounds through this pistol shortly after my Grandfather's death (Fiocchi 30 luger). Unfortunately, it was a jam-o-matic and would not cycle. It would not chamber unless I hand cycled it. A bit frustrating. It did put 'em where I wanted 'em though! :-)

Thanks for all the help, I'd love to put together a data sheet for this pistol that my sons will be able to use to ID the thing after I'm gone.

Cheers,
Chris

George Anderson · 10-21-2006, 05:55 PM

Seems to be a Uhlan marking. Perhaps you can remove a grip and look at the inside of the grip strap for the entire marking.

Dwight Gruber · 10-21-2006, 06:22 PM

Chris,

The recoil spring was probably never changed when the barrel was relined, so it is too strong for .30 cal, Luger. Add to that the fact that Fiocci is too underpowered to operate even a normal .30 Luger reliably, you end up with a system which, as you have experienced, has not a hope of operating.

If you intend to continue shooting this pistol--not a bad idea, in its condition--you might consider putting in a more ppropriate spring.

--Dwight

no4mk1 · 10-22-2006, 01:30 AM

Thanks for the info guys! Why would they have changed a 9mm to a 30 Luger? I thought they only did that with the commercial guns.

Cheers,
Chris

Edward Tinker · 10-22-2006, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by no4mk1
Thanks for the info guys! Why would they have changed a 9mm to a 30 Luger? I thought they only did that with the commercial guns.

Cheers,
Chris

Several possibilities (I have a 1913 (?) that is relined..)

1. At the time, 9mm was harder to get than 7.65mm (we think of 9mm as easy to get now, back in that time, it was literally impossible to get in some places)
2. They felt that 7.65mm was more accurate (it originally was a "target" round)
3. It was exported during the weimar era, and 9mm was verbotten

Ed

no4mk1 · 10-22-2006, 08:35 PM

Thanks. I didn't think of ammo availability.

What is the consensus choice for a mainspring on a 7.65 gun? A Wolff reduced power? Or are these too strong for commercial ammo?

Cheers,
Chris

10-21-2006, 06:27 AM	#1
no4mk1 User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	First post and pics of 1910 DWM Hi, I've been trying to find out some things about the Luger my Grandfather left me when he passed in 1995. It is in pretty poor shape. It is a 1910 DWM in .30 Luger. My grandfather only said that he bought it from a friend after the war, (he was a merchant marine who sailed in both the Atlantic and Pacific) but never gave any details as to when. He told me that his friend "smoothed" the edges so it wouldn't snag in his pocket, and was the one who did the frightening little safety modification you'll see in the pics. It appears to have all matching numbers and no import stamp. However with the obvious over-polishing, who knows what it has. It appears to have some sort of regimental or police unit number on the front strap, but nothing else really obvious. Any insight into the history of this pistol would be greatly appreciated. I'm not interested in selling it, as it has incredible family significance to me, but I might be interested in re-barrelling it in 9mm if it wouldn't be befouling a collectible piece (given its condition I doubt that would be the case though). I am a big military firearms enthusiast (mostly WWII Enfields and U.S. military arms) but German pistols aren't my forte. ;-) If a pic of any other part of the pistol would help, just let me know. Thanks for reading! On with the pictures... Cheers, Chris __________________ WWDDD (What Would Duck Dunn Do?)

10-21-2006, 07:04 AM	#2
no4mk1 User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hmmm... I seem to have forgotten to add that I believe that the serial number is 648 with a script a suffix. It's very difficult to read. Cheers, Chris __________________ WWDDD (What Would Duck Dunn Do?)

10-21-2006, 08:10 AM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	Chris, well, this is an interesting one. Either previously reblued at one time or very worn (light markings). A 1910 is very rare in itself (17k estimated made, however, the a suffix would be incorrect, should be "b", "c" or "d". Your knobbie on the left, well, what the hell is that? (note, read over your thingy on the safety thingy and now understand) Are you Positive about the caliber? i.e, that it is not 9mm? Note, it appears to have 8,xx (the xx being eitehr 8,82 or 8,83, 8,84 etc., the lands to lands measurement) If so, then the barrel is actually 9mm, and may have been lined as a 7.65mm (30 luger), I have a 1913 that is just like that, almost impossible to tell it has been relined... From your angle, what does the unit marking look like on the front grip strap? And welcome to the forum, and for the time being, don't change it in any way! Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-22-2006, 01:30 AM	#7
no4mk1 User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the info guys! Why would they have changed a 9mm to a 30 Luger? I thought they only did that with the commercial guns. Cheers, Chris __________________ WWDDD (What Would Duck Dunn Do?)

10-22-2006, 08:35 PM	#9
no4mk1 User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks. I didn't think of ammo availability. What is the consensus choice for a mainspring on a 7.65 gun? A Wolff reduced power? Or are these too strong for commercial ammo? Cheers, Chris __________________ WWDDD (What Would Duck Dunn Do?)

10-21-2006, 05:55 PM	#5
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	Seems to be a Uhlan marking. Perhaps you can remove a grip and look at the inside of the grip strap for the entire marking.

10-21-2006, 06:22 PM	#6
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,317 Times in 431 Posts	Chris, The recoil spring was probably never changed when the barrel was relined, so it is too strong for .30 cal, Luger. Add to that the fact that Fiocci is too underpowered to operate even a normal .30 Luger reliably, you end up with a system which, as you have experienced, has not a hope of operating. If you intend to continue shooting this pistol--not a bad idea, in its condition--you might consider putting in a more ppropriate spring. --Dwight