krieghoff toggle on ebay

Edward Tinker · 08-16-2006, 11:29 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=140019003060

I think this toggle looks a bit funny? Was there a DWM under the marking... ??

Dwight Gruber · 08-17-2006, 01:47 AM

Everyone should take a good, close look at this item. It is a textbook example of pantograph engraving. Note the constant line widths, the characteristic tool swirling visible particulary in the K of the HK, the rounded ends of all the strokes and serifs, how some of the strokes seem to "over-write" others.

If you compare this to a real HK toggle stamp, you will also note that some of the letters are misshapen--the Kand G in KRIEGHOFF, the S in SUHL; also, the diagonal stroke of the R impinges into the upper loop.

If only all fakes could be this obvious.

--Dwight

Ron Wood · 08-17-2006, 02:04 AM

Dwight's keen eye probably has captured discrepancies in the markings. It appears to be kind of a "hybrid" fake, since parts of the markings are original (note the sharp points on some of the marks), but the remainder looks like they have been "touched up" with a pantograph. I think it may have been an original HK that someone attempted to "improve". Too bad.

Edward Tinker · 08-21-2006, 11:11 PM

I still think there is a marking under the Krieghoff, you can see the striations under it.

Somebody did not think so;

Bid Amount Date of bid

bluestarx83( 12) US $1,225.00 Aug-21-06 16:09:24 PDT

John D. · 08-21-2006, 11:32 PM

Hey guys,

IMHO - Dwight is right on.. As well, the buffing across the toggle face is wrong, as is the chamfer of the edges...

John

Ron Smith · 08-22-2006, 10:24 AM

If you look at the examples on pg 80-87 of Gibson's book. Note that the cross bar of the H overlaps the right up-right of the H on virtually every example. The cross bar on this one abruptly ends, at the inside edge of the up-right.

This may have been a test piece that didn't come out exactly as expected. So, they are trying to recoup the cost of the toggle by selling it rather than attempting to pass it off on a complete pistol. Which would be more closely scrutinized by a collector.

Ron

08-16-2006, 11:29 PM	#1
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	krieghoff toggle on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=140019003060 I think this toggle looks a bit funny? Was there a DWM under the marking... ?? Attached Images

08-17-2006, 02:04 AM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Dwight's keen eye probably has captured discrepancies in the markings. It appears to be kind of a "hybrid" fake, since parts of the markings are original (note the sharp points on some of the marks), but the remainder looks like they have been "touched up" with a pantograph. I think it may have been an original HK that someone attempted to "improve". Too bad. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-22-2006, 10:24 AM	#6
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	If you look at the examples on pg 80-87 of Gibson's book. Note that the cross bar of the H overlaps the right up-right of the H on virtually every example. The cross bar on this one abruptly ends, at the inside edge of the up-right. This may have been a test piece that didn't come out exactly as expected. So, they are trying to recoup the cost of the toggle by selling it rather than attempting to pass it off on a complete pistol. Which would be more closely scrutinized by a collector. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

08-17-2006, 01:47 AM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,317 Times in 431 Posts	Everyone should take a good, close look at this item. It is a textbook example of pantograph engraving. Note the constant line widths, the characteristic tool swirling visible particulary in the K of the HK, the rounded ends of all the strokes and serifs, how some of the strokes seem to "over-write" others. If you compare this to a real HK toggle stamp, you will also note that some of the letters are misshapen--the Kand G in KRIEGHOFF, the S in SUHL; also, the diagonal stroke of the R impinges into the upper loop. If only all fakes could be this obvious. --Dwight

08-21-2006, 11:11 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	I still think there is a marking under the Krieghoff, you can see the striations under it. Somebody did not think so; Bid Amount Date of bid bluestarx83( 12) US $1,225.00 Aug-21-06 16:09:24 PDT

08-21-2006, 11:32 PM	#5
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts	Hey guys, IMHO - Dwight is right on.. As well, the buffing across the toggle face is wrong, as is the chamfer of the edges... John