S Code in local shop

Fritzer · 02-07-2006, 11:04 PM

Hello all,

I was showcase shopping in a local gun shop and handled my first luger with an anchor on it. I know nothing about these, I'll try to describe what I thought to examine here.

S on chamber, serial 3873, 9 mm

Blue mostly gone, some light pitting on the barrel and right side of the reciever. No noticeable strawing, if there was supposed to be any.

Again, a complete novice on these, thumbed thru Walters book when I got home - but from what I recall...
Bakelite (like) grips with border.
no digits on:
sideplate , visable on toggle, take down lever, or exposed area of safety bar.
wide trigger.
Three stampings on right of reciever, one smaller size stamping just below those three on the raised rail.
Geladed marked extractor, gesichert under safety.

Two mags with folded silver tubes (nickel?), aluminum base. One numbered the same as the pistol, but in a smaller font than the other - unmatching mag. Acceptance stamp on the bottom of both mags, no other marks that I could see.

1937 dated holster, black, fair to good condition.

Tool with inspection mark, can't recall specifics.

Priced for the whole thing $1199.
(I once saw an under priced ww1 commercial at this same shop, it didn't stay there long)

So, I guess I'm learning - and asking if it's worth a second look at something that I completely missed? I wasn't really looking for one, it is not museum condition, probably spent the last 50 years in the holster in a drawer somewhere?

What do you folks think about this one?

Thanks for your comments,
Fritz.

Edward Tinker · 02-07-2006, 11:14 PM

Fritz, if the S is on the chamber and not on the toggle, it would be a good chance it is a real krieghoff. Please give me the name of the gun shop so I can poach this away from you for $1199...

ed

Fritzer · 02-08-2006, 01:45 AM

Ed,
Yup, the S is on the chamber.
I've gone back into the member gallery, and HK posts looking for pictures.

IF it is right, the overall condition of the blue was one concern, along with my general ignorance.
I don't think it has been in the case long, the two young counter guys didn't know it was there.

So it sounds like you are suggesting - to go back in a hurry?

Thanks again,
Fritz.

Pete Ebbink · 02-08-2006, 01:57 AM

Fritz,

You will see a few photos of my S-code HK luger on page 12 (at the bottom) of the Member's Gallery.

Mine cost $ 4K almost 2 years ago...

Getting this worn HK for $ 1200...you might want to have a craftsman like LF member Ted Green (aka "Thor") professionally restore it and you would have a really nice HK for around $ 1600 or so.

Edward Tinker · 02-08-2006, 09:37 AM

I would go back and check it out again. If it is a krieghoff, and in reasonble shape, I would buy it before leaving the store. You can not touch a krieg reblue for half that price, let alone one that is in rougher shape.

I have very mixed feelings on restoring, as I understand why folks do it (and Ted is a friend of mine), but then the history of the piece is 'washed" away... On the other hand, a restore is a renewing of the piece, and Ted does a good job, better than just about anyone I have seen.

Ed

Fritzer · 02-08-2006, 09:56 AM

Thanks Ed,

I found some very detailed pictures on Jan's site of an S with a very close serial number to this. The poster is from Germany and has nice detailed pictures of strawed and fire blued components, inspection marks, and serial locations on that one.

I will go back for another look,
who knows .. ... CHARGE !!!

Fritz.

Edward Tinker · 02-08-2006, 09:58 AM

I'm sure not telling you to do that... But I would be looking awful close today at her today

Fritzer · 02-08-2006, 01:30 PM

Dropped by this morning.

looked it over once more.
Again, my reservations were on condition.
Decided to go for it.

It was a Gander Mountain retail store, who'd a thunk it??

Ed - I filled out their branded instant credit app.
Got a free hat, and 5% off my purchase - that about covered the state sales tax. Got them to throw in 50 rounds of ammo. Walked out after just a few signatures. What a country!

Anyway, now the research continues.
I had read John D. long post about S dates on Jan's forum.
so it sounds like there is some differing views on these from various authors. Which books do a good job on this variation? Would Jan's book be a reasonable start here?

Thanks for all your encouragement, I wasn't even thinking about luger nuts on Wednesday morning, now I are one.

I will try to do some decent pictures this weekend, and post them in a new thread.
The strawing is fairly weak, with a fire blued mag release.
I will take it apart and attempt decent photo's for serials and condition of the pistol, mags, tool, and holster.

Best Regards,
Fritz.

Edward Tinker · 02-08-2006, 01:59 PM

Fritz, sounds nice. Gibson's book specifically on Krieghoffs is the one to go by.

Simpson's LTD has them for around $85

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...products_id=33

hmm, now do you need anything in trade for this piece of junk

Fritzer · 02-08-2006, 10:26 PM

All,

Here is a sneak peek, I will do a complete layout soon:
The whole deal

Toggle

Chamber

Side

Anchor?

Pete Ebbink · 02-08-2006, 10:44 PM

Fritz,

I have lightened 2 of your photos so folks can see more detail.

It looks like you picked up an honest HK at a very good price. The bluing and straw is a lot stronger than your opeing posted indicated. Congratulations !

I would venture a guess that your HK might have a real value of $ 2700-3000 if original finish and all small parts match and are HK proofed.

When you have more time, could you take a close-up photos of :

1. The numbers and proofs at the bottom of both magazines...this will help us determine if factory matching and proper.

2. The proof stamping on the take-down tool. Would like to determine if it is HK proofed as well.

BTW...those finely checkered brown plastic grips are Ritzmann grips...definitely proper for your HK's serial number. Those pair of grips easily sell for $ 250-350 by themselves.

p.s. Take a look at the inside of your holster along the back panel. Is there a small eagle/2 stamping along the back, inside panel. If yes...it is an HK proofed holster probably worth $ 450 or more...

Fritzer · 02-08-2006, 10:55 PM

Thanks for the photo help Pete.
Yes I have photo's of the mag bottoms.
One is the proper serial number & eagle/2 acceptance.
The other is 4205 c with eagle/54 (or maybe 154?)

Also took pictures of underside of toggle train, inside of grips, reciever proofs, trigger, trigger plate inside.
The same photo's I've seen in other postings.
Everything looks okay so far.

Regards,
Fritz.

Pete Ebbink · 02-08-2006, 11:02 PM

Fritz...

My heart skipped a beat for a few seconds...

I have an extra HK magazine for my S-code luger # 2122 with the serial number of # 3889...if it was # 3873...it would be yours in short order...

John Sabato · 02-09-2006, 09:28 AM

Somebody call the Sheriff... Fritz STOLE this HK rig for that amount of money... Great find Fritzer!

02-07-2006, 11:04 PM	#1
Fritzer User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 134 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	S Code in local shop Hello all, I was showcase shopping in a local gun shop and handled my first luger with an anchor on it. I know nothing about these, I'll try to describe what I thought to examine here. S on chamber, serial 3873, 9 mm Blue mostly gone, some light pitting on the barrel and right side of the reciever. No noticeable strawing, if there was supposed to be any. Again, a complete novice on these, thumbed thru Walters book when I got home - but from what I recall... Bakelite (like) grips with border. no digits on: sideplate , visable on toggle, take down lever, or exposed area of safety bar. wide trigger. Three stampings on right of reciever, one smaller size stamping just below those three on the raised rail. Geladed marked extractor, gesichert under safety. Two mags with folded silver tubes (nickel?), aluminum base. One numbered the same as the pistol, but in a smaller font than the other - unmatching mag. Acceptance stamp on the bottom of both mags, no other marks that I could see. 1937 dated holster, black, fair to good condition. Tool with inspection mark, can't recall specifics. Priced for the whole thing $1199. (I once saw an under priced ww1 commercial at this same shop, it didn't stay there long) So, I guess I'm learning - and asking if it's worth a second look at something that I completely missed? I wasn't really looking for one, it is not museum condition, probably spent the last 50 years in the holster in a drawer somewhere? What do you folks think about this one? Thanks for your comments, Fritz.

02-07-2006, 11:14 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,932 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,528 Times in 2,091 Posts	Fritz, if the S is on the chamber and not on the toggle, it would be a good chance it is a real krieghoff. Please give me the name of the gun shop so I can poach this away from you for $1199... ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-08-2006, 09:37 AM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,932 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,528 Times in 2,091 Posts	I would go back and check it out again. If it is a krieghoff, and in reasonble shape, I would buy it before leaving the store. You can not touch a krieg reblue for half that price, let alone one that is in rougher shape. I have very mixed feelings on restoring, as I understand why folks do it (and Ted is a friend of mine), but then the history of the piece is 'washed" away... On the other hand, a restore is a renewing of the piece, and Ted does a good job, better than just about anyone I have seen. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-08-2006, 09:58 AM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,932 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,528 Times in 2,091 Posts	I'm sure not telling you to do that... But I would be looking awful close today at her today __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-08-2006, 01:30 PM	#8
Fritzer User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 134 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It's Done, new owner. Dropped by this morning. looked it over once more. Again, my reservations were on condition. Decided to go for it. It was a Gander Mountain retail store, who'd a thunk it?? Ed - I filled out their branded instant credit app. Got a free hat, and 5% off my purchase - that about covered the state sales tax. Got them to throw in 50 rounds of ammo. Walked out after just a few signatures. What a country! Anyway, now the research continues. I had read John D. long post about S dates on Jan's forum. so it sounds like there is some differing views on these from various authors. Which books do a good job on this variation? Would Jan's book be a reasonable start here? Thanks for all your encouragement, I wasn't even thinking about luger nuts on Wednesday morning, now I are one. I will try to do some decent pictures this weekend, and post them in a new thread. The strawing is fairly weak, with a fire blued mag release. I will take it apart and attempt decent photo's for serials and condition of the pistol, mags, tool, and holster. Best Regards, Fritz.

02-08-2006, 01:45 AM	#3
Fritzer User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 134 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed, Yup, the S is on the chamber. I've gone back into the member gallery, and HK posts looking for pictures. IF it is right, the overall condition of the blue was one concern, along with my general ignorance. I don't think it has been in the case long, the two young counter guys didn't know it was there. So it sounds like you are suggesting - to go back in a hurry? Thanks again, Fritz.

02-08-2006, 01:57 AM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Fritz, You will see a few photos of my S-code HK luger on page 12 (at the bottom) of the Member's Gallery. Mine cost $ 4K almost 2 years ago... Getting this worn HK for $ 1200...you might want to have a craftsman like LF member Ted Green (aka "Thor") professionally restore it and you would have a really nice HK for around $ 1600 or so.

02-08-2006, 09:56 AM	#6
Fritzer User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 134 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Ed, I found some very detailed pictures on Jan's site of an S with a very close serial number to this. The poster is from Germany and has nice detailed pictures of strawed and fire blued components, inspection marks, and serial locations on that one. I will go back for another look, who knows .. ... CHARGE !!! Fritz.

02-08-2006, 01:59 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,932 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,528 Times in 2,091 Posts	Fritz, sounds nice. Gibson's book specifically on Krieghoffs is the one to go by. Simpson's LTD has them for around $85 http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...products_id=33 hmm, now do you need anything in trade for this piece of junk

02-08-2006, 10:26 PM	#10
Fritzer User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 134 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Just a couple of Pics All, Here is a sneak peek, I will do a complete layout soon: The whole deal Toggle Chamber Side Anchor?

02-08-2006, 10:44 PM	#11
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Fritz, I have lightened 2 of your photos so folks can see more detail. It looks like you picked up an honest HK at a very good price. The bluing and straw is a lot stronger than your opeing posted indicated. Congratulations ! I would venture a guess that your HK might have a real value of $ 2700-3000 if original finish and all small parts match and are HK proofed. When you have more time, could you take a close-up photos of : 1. The numbers and proofs at the bottom of both magazines...this will help us determine if factory matching and proper. 2. The proof stamping on the take-down tool. Would like to determine if it is HK proofed as well. BTW...those finely checkered brown plastic grips are Ritzmann grips...definitely proper for your HK's serial number. Those pair of grips easily sell for $ 250-350 by themselves. p.s. Take a look at the inside of your holster along the back panel. Is there a small eagle/2 stamping along the back, inside panel. If yes...it is an HK proofed holster probably worth $ 450 or more...

02-08-2006, 10:55 PM	#12
Fritzer User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 134 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the photo help Pete. Yes I have photo's of the mag bottoms. One is the proper serial number & eagle/2 acceptance. The other is 4205 c with eagle/54 (or maybe 154?) Also took pictures of underside of toggle train, inside of grips, reciever proofs, trigger, trigger plate inside. The same photo's I've seen in other postings. Everything looks okay so far. Regards, Fritz.

02-08-2006, 11:02 PM	#13
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Fritz... My heart skipped a beat for a few seconds... I have an extra HK magazine for my S-code luger # 2122 with the serial number of # 3889...if it was # 3873...it would be yours in short order...

02-09-2006, 09:28 AM	#14
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Somebody call the Sheriff... Fritz STOLE this HK rig for that amount of money... Great find Fritzer! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*