Reported AE Test Luger serial Range in error

Jan C Still · 12-25-2005, 02:55 AM

Reference to the Springfield Armory web sight was made by Warren Buxton in the most recent issue of AUTO MAG.

The Springfield Armory web sight reported Bannerman serial range for the 1900 AE Test Luger varies from that reported in Imperial Lugers and Meadows U.S.Military Automatic Pistols 1894-1920, page 386(1993) and Walter in Luger page 61 and The Luger Book page 277: as follows: Imperial Lugers: 6167-6196, 6282, 6361-7108, and 7147. From Springfield Armory web sight 6176-6196, 6282, 6361-7108, and 7147.
Jan

Full text from the Springfield Armory web sight below:
"LUGER PISTOL M1900 AMERICAN EAGLE SECOND ISSUE 7.65MM U.S. ARMY
TRIALS (From Springfield Armory web sight)
The listed serial numbers represent 770 pistols purchased by Bannerman & Sons from the United States Government Arsenal at Springfield Armory in 1906, 6176-6196, 6282, 6361-7108, and 7147. These are the only documented specimens of trial pistols issued by the U.S. Army from 1901-1905. The original order from Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken, Germany was for 1000 pistols. The 230 (1000-770) pistols whose serial numbers are not shown were probably rendered useless in various tests. It is quite possible however that a small number of these unrecorded specimens came into private hands. There is no definite marking employed by the United States Government which will positively identify these pistols. Any stamped letters, numbers or ordnance type flaming bombs found on the frame or receiver can not be attributed to any United States government agency. If a M1900 American Eagle, second issue pistol is suspected of being a trial specimen it will have the following characteristics: 1. Serial number range 5800 to 7800. 2. The word Germany will not appear on the pistol.
M1902 LUGER PISTOL 9MM (From Springfield Armory web sight) The introduction of the 9mmm cartridge caused the purchase of at least five additional pistols. 10030B - a prototype specimen, 10060 - a prototype specimen, and 22414, 22425, and 22435."

Dwight Gruber · 12-26-2005, 03:41 PM

It is worthwhile to note that 1900 American Eagle #6167 is one of the guns mentioned by number in the report of 2nd. Lieut. Orlando G. Palmer, 7th Cavalry, Cuba; it is a gun reported as existing.

--Dwight

Vlim · 12-27-2005, 05:37 AM

It would be nice to know who made the typo....

My money is on the Springfield Armory website (being wrong

)

R.David · 01-19-2006, 12:46 PM

Finally got to talk with John McCabe, a curator at Springfield Armory Museum. He told me that the list in their web site for the AE test guns IS in error and that the first gun should be 6167 as in the other publications. This will be corrected. He was not aware of the list's source, and thought it might have come from Kenyon. He was unaware of any source material in the Archives for this list. Do any of you know where this list originated and what form the original was in? Regards to all, Richard

Lugerdoc · 01-20-2006, 09:46 AM

Richard, The first place I saw the Bannermann luger serials was in Steve Fuller's "US Martial & Collectors Arms" copyrighted 1977) page 44. His numbers run from 6167 to 7147. TH

12-25-2005, 02:55 AM	#1
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Reported AE Test Luger serial Range in error Reference to the Springfield Armory web sight was made by Warren Buxton in the most recent issue of AUTO MAG. The Springfield Armory web sight reported Bannerman serial range for the 1900 AE Test Luger varies from that reported in Imperial Lugers and Meadows U.S.Military Automatic Pistols 1894-1920, page 386(1993) and Walter in Luger page 61 and The Luger Book page 277: as follows: Imperial Lugers: 6167-6196, 6282, 6361-7108, and 7147. From Springfield Armory web sight 6176-6196, 6282, 6361-7108, and 7147. Jan Full text from the Springfield Armory web sight below: "LUGER PISTOL M1900 AMERICAN EAGLE SECOND ISSUE 7.65MM U.S. ARMY TRIALS (From Springfield Armory web sight) The listed serial numbers represent 770 pistols purchased by Bannerman & Sons from the United States Government Arsenal at Springfield Armory in 1906, 6176-6196, 6282, 6361-7108, and 7147. These are the only documented specimens of trial pistols issued by the U.S. Army from 1901-1905. The original order from Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken, Germany was for 1000 pistols. The 230 (1000-770) pistols whose serial numbers are not shown were probably rendered useless in various tests. It is quite possible however that a small number of these unrecorded specimens came into private hands. There is no definite marking employed by the United States Government which will positively identify these pistols. Any stamped letters, numbers or ordnance type flaming bombs found on the frame or receiver can not be attributed to any United States government agency. If a M1900 American Eagle, second issue pistol is suspected of being a trial specimen it will have the following characteristics: 1. Serial number range 5800 to 7800. 2. The word Germany will not appear on the pistol. M1902 LUGER PISTOL 9MM (From Springfield Armory web sight) The introduction of the 9mmm cartridge caused the purchase of at least five additional pistols. 10030B - a prototype specimen, 10060 - a prototype specimen, and 22414, 22425, and 22435."

01-20-2006, 09:46 AM	#5
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Richard, The first place I saw the Bannermann luger serials was in Steve Fuller's "US Martial & Collectors Arms" copyrighted 1977) page 44. His numbers run from 6167 to 7147. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-26-2005, 03:41 PM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,899 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,307 Times in 429 Posts	It is worthwhile to note that 1900 American Eagle #6167 is one of the guns mentioned by number in the report of 2nd. Lieut. Orlando G. Palmer, 7th Cavalry, Cuba; it is a gun reported as existing. --Dwight

12-27-2005, 05:37 AM	#3
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	It would be nice to know who made the typo.... My money is on the Springfield Armory website (being wrong )

01-19-2006, 12:46 PM	#4
R.David User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lake Oswego, Oregon Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Finally got to talk with John McCabe, a curator at Springfield Armory Museum. He told me that the list in their web site for the AE test guns IS in error and that the first gun should be 6167 as in the other publications. This will be corrected. He was not aware of the list's source, and thought it might have come from Kenyon. He was unaware of any source material in the Archives for this list. Do any of you know where this list originated and what form the original was in? Regards to all, Richard