1918 Erfurt luger

grasshoper · 09-01-2002, 04:54 PM

I have a 1918 Ertfurt In very good condition, all original parts including on magazine. However, It has british markings which were only put into use after 1925 (it is marked NOTBRITISHMAKE). I know it was used by HAGANA forces in 1947-8 and it was probably used in the jewish brigade of the british army during WWII. Can anyone tell me where did the british get such guns (It was not made for british use, the safety is marked in german) and why did it take them more then 7 years to put it into service? I was also wondering what would be the price of such an article in the free market.

Johnny Peppers · 09-01-2002, 05:07 PM

Is the marking NOT BRITISH MAKE or NOT ENGLISH MAKE? Either way it indicates that your Luger was sold commercially in England some time between 1925 and 1955, and additionally it should be proofed under the provisions of the British Proof Laws.

grasshoper · 09-01-2002, 05:23 PM

NOTENGLISHMAKE of course. Actualy, ist just NOTENGLISH. you cant read the rest. Thanks. I believe it was actualy brought to israel by british army (The mandate forces in Palestine) so I dont know if it was sold comercialy. Wherent british army pistols marked in a similar way?

Johnny Peppers · 09-01-2002, 08:30 PM

Military weapons were required to be proofed only if they were to be sold commercially. The Lend-Lease weapons sent to England by the US were not proofed until they were released for commercial sale starting in the 1950's. The Luger could possibly have been a private purchase by a British soldier, but have no idea of regulations concerning soldiers and their privately owned weapons.

Lugerdoc · 09-03-2002, 08:40 AM

Grasshopper, Please don't ASSUME that all weapons that went thru the British proof houses went to the British Military. Just the opposite is true. British military weapons with generally be marked with a Broad Arrow acceptance, not the commerical proofing that you describe, required on foreign made firearms sold commerically. Regarding Isreali army weapons: I have owned over the years, several pistols (mostly WW2 German used) that were marked with a 3 armed Hebrew letter, indicating acceptance by the IM. I've also seen several Radoms, CZ27s, PO8s, etc. that had all Nazi WaAs peened out, that I suspect were used by the Hagana (OT political content deleted by site admin-JS). Tom H.

grasshoper · 09-03-2002, 01:47 PM

Hi Tom,
a few points :
1. I never "ASSUMED" no such thing. When I said I assume it came here with british forces I reffered to the history of the gun as told to me by its previous owner who used it in his time in the HAGANA 55 years ago.
2. I never said the pistol was used by the israeli army. It never was. The letter "tzadik" which you refer to was never imprinted on it.
(Political Comments edited by site admin -JS) Best regards, Grasshoper.

Garfield · 09-03-2002, 02:36 PM

With the exception of "poor mouthing" CA, I was of the impression that the discussion of one's political views was a "no-no" on this forum. That is one rule that I support wholeheartedly.

John Sabato · 09-03-2002, 02:49 PM

Grasshopper, (& Lugerdoc)

(G,) I deleted your duplicate posting and (both) I edited your political comments... keep it focused on Lugers please...

grasshoper · 09-03-2002, 05:37 PM

Sorry about that administrator. I guess I did go political there. Its sometimes hard to avoid it down here. Lugers only from now own.

P.S. I would appreciate it if you edited Lugerdocws reply while your at it.

John Sabato · 09-04-2002, 01:37 AM

Done...Sorry, that was my oversight... I had not read Tom H.'s post closely enough... another member just emailed me to let me know before your reply.

I hope you enjoy the forum...Its a great place to learn...

09-01-2002, 04:54 PM	#1
grasshoper New User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1918 Erfurt luger I have a 1918 Ertfurt In very good condition, all original parts including on magazine. However, It has british markings which were only put into use after 1925 (it is marked NOTBRITISHMAKE). I know it was used by HAGANA forces in 1947-8 and it was probably used in the jewish brigade of the british army during WWII. Can anyone tell me where did the british get such guns (It was not made for british use, the safety is marked in german) and why did it take them more then 7 years to put it into service? I was also wondering what would be the price of such an article in the free market.

09-03-2002, 08:40 AM	#5
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Grasshopper, Please don't ASSUME that all weapons that went thru the British proof houses went to the British Military. Just the opposite is true. British military weapons with generally be marked with a Broad Arrow acceptance, not the commerical proofing that you describe, required on foreign made firearms sold commerically. Regarding Isreali army weapons: I have owned over the years, several pistols (mostly WW2 German used) that were marked with a 3 armed Hebrew letter, indicating acceptance by the IM. I've also seen several Radoms, CZ27s, PO8s, etc. that had all Nazi WaAs peened out, that I suspect were used by the Hagana (OT political content deleted by site admin-JS). Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

09-03-2002, 02:49 PM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,098 Posts	Grasshopper, (& Lugerdoc) (G,) I deleted your duplicate posting and (both) I edited your political comments... keep it focused on Lugers please... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-04-2002, 01:37 AM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,098 Posts	Done...Sorry, that was my oversight... I had not read Tom H.'s post closely enough... another member just emailed me to let me know before your reply. I hope you enjoy the forum...Its a great place to learn... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

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09-01-2002, 05:07 PM	#2
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Is the marking NOT BRITISH MAKE or NOT ENGLISH MAKE? Either way it indicates that your Luger was sold commercially in England some time between 1925 and 1955, and additionally it should be proofed under the provisions of the British Proof Laws.

09-01-2002, 05:23 PM	#3
grasshoper New User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	NOTENGLISHMAKE of course. Actualy, ist just NOTENGLISH. you cant read the rest. Thanks. I believe it was actualy brought to israel by british army (The mandate forces in Palestine) so I dont know if it was sold comercialy. Wherent british army pistols marked in a similar way?

09-01-2002, 08:30 PM	#4
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Military weapons were required to be proofed only if they were to be sold commercially. The Lend-Lease weapons sent to England by the US were not proofed until they were released for commercial sale starting in the 1950's. The Luger could possibly have been a private purchase by a British soldier, but have no idea of regulations concerning soldiers and their privately owned weapons.

09-03-2002, 01:47 PM	#6
grasshoper New User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Tom, a few points : 1. I never "ASSUMED" no such thing. When I said I assume it came here with british forces I reffered to the history of the gun as told to me by its previous owner who used it in his time in the HAGANA 55 years ago. 2. I never said the pistol was used by the israeli army. It never was. The letter "tzadik" which you refer to was never imprinted on it. (Political Comments edited by site admin -JS) Best regards, Grasshoper.

09-03-2002, 02:36 PM	#7
Garfield User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A little SE of Nome Posts: 239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	With the exception of "poor mouthing" CA, I was of the impression that the discussion of one's political views was a "no-no" on this forum. That is one rule that I support wholeheartedly.

09-03-2002, 05:37 PM	#9
grasshoper New User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sorry about that administrator. I guess I did go political there. Its sometimes hard to avoid it down here. Lugers only from now own. P.S. I would appreciate it if you edited Lugerdocws reply while your at it.