Waffenampt Pin

kidvett · 09-03-2002, 01:45 PM

This Center Toggle Pin is from a 2nd Var. 1937 S/42 and is stamped with the Eagle 63 Waffenampt. It's the first time I see this.

Can somebody help on this mystery? [img]confused.gif[/img]

kidvett [img]cool.gif[/img]

kidvett · 09-05-2002, 05:08 PM

Can somebody HELP on that one...

THANKS [img]smile.gif[/img]

kidvett

Hugh · 09-06-2002, 11:03 AM

Kidvett,

Apparently not! I know I can't! [img]frown.gif[/img]

Lugerdoc · 09-07-2002, 07:27 AM

My best guess on the WaAed axel is that it came from an armour's repair kit. I've seen many other various parts that were either WaAed or code S/42 or 42 marked spares. Tom H.

Aaron · 09-07-2002, 10:15 AM

I am beginning to think that the armorer replacing of parts in Luger pistols is an important facet of collecting and has been hitherto largely glossed over. For a long time I believed my 41 dated Luger with an S/42 Toggle was an out of sequence assembly as referred to briefly by Jan Still. I am now convinced it is an armorer replacement which was numbered to the gun during the replacement procedure. I also think that the examples shown by Still may very well be replacement examples and not out of sequence pistols.

Garfield · 09-07-2002, 12:57 PM

I have never seen an actual field armourers'parts chest. Bender, Luger Holsters and Accessories, shows two such chests and the contents. It would be interesting to know how the parts contained in such a chest were marked/numbered. As Lugerdoc points out, S/42 and 42 were used to indicate replacement parts. I have seen grips, loading tools and magazines so numbered.

FWIW, Several years ago I saw four toggle pins that I was told were parts from an armourers' tool box. They were oversized pins and were stamped on the head with numbers indicating how much each was oversize. Been a long time, however, I believe that each was .05mm larger than the other, starting with .05mm. Seems as though they were acceptance/approval stamped also, however, if they were can't recall what it might have been. As my recollection clears after a taste or two, it seems to me that lugerdoc had these verysame toggle pins. But then I may be wrong.

Roadkill · 09-07-2002, 09:17 PM

At what level would there be an armorer in the Imperial army? Company? At what level would this armorer have a Luger replacement kit? Regimental?
Battalion? I'd say regimental. Would the repair kit include rifles, MGs, Lugers, magazines? My guess is the armorer would be at regimental level and the Luger parts would be a section of the full weapons inventory. What parts would be in this repair section? Rifle mainsprings, ejectors, sights, firing pins, stocks, slings, muzzel covers,and barrel bands at the minimum. What about lugers? Sideplates - too difficult? Toggle pins, firing pins, mainsprings, ejectors, grips, magazines, what else?

RK

Garfield · 09-08-2002, 01:20 AM

RK:

Don't know about the "level" and am not certain about Imperial field parts kits, however, pictures in Bender indicate all of the items you mention, including side plates. Pics show an inventory list, but, alas, my German is not that good.

Whoops, no stocks for the rifles. Just small parts. Muzzle covers, yes. The sling fitting that goes on the right side of the stock, the small stuff.

G.T. · 09-08-2002, 09:07 AM

Hi Guys! I just received some holdopens that are code 42 marked replacement parts.... they are new, never been used... they had a little bit of rust, but all of them were blue and showed no wear on any surface... the odd thing was... where the two digit serial usually was placed, it showed signs of work, and on one of them you could see where the original number ghousted through! I thing the numbers were removed.... prior to there being inserted into any type of kit! Also, I think a large portion of the large parts had numbers on them...for what reason? I don't know?? Anyone know any more on these kits!!
till...later...G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

wterrell · 09-08-2002, 09:27 AM

[quote] I think the numbers were removed.... prior to there being inserted into any type of kit! <hr></blockquote>

G.T.,

Is there any evidence that these hold-opens were supplies for an armorer's chest?

Roadkill · 09-08-2002, 12:29 PM

Garfield, I'm pretty good with German military stuff, if you or someone else can get it to me I'll see what I can do.

RK

Garfield · 09-08-2002, 03:05 PM

RK:

Check your private messages

G.T. · 09-08-2002, 05:37 PM

Hi Wes! No evidence of the parts being part of a kit....other then the 42 mark! It just seems that when sellers have any type of quantity to sell, they only have about three or four different items.... it would lead one to think that the parts were the reminent of some type of nearly depleted kit or parts stores...??? But, who knows?? I believe the parts to be as new,... all I have received have been nice original parts! till...later...G.T.

Roadkill · 09-08-2002, 10:18 PM

Got your message sir. Will be in contact tomorrow on a computer that will work better than this antique. Reference "level" of repair, what I meant was military units are allowed to make repairs at certain levels of complexity. Individual the lowest, company next, battalion, then regimental/brigade or division. A company kit is specific to that Table of Organization & Equipment of that company. An infantry company of 120 men in 1917 would have only six - eight Lugers. But a MG company with a kit based on its equipment would have many more Lugers. But still not enough to dedicate a whole repair section to them. Moving on up to Regimental/Brigade level responsible for 25-30 companies would warrant a comprehensive armorer's kit. My point is a company armorer would not have a dedicated repair chest with dozens of parts for only a few guns. Must have been for a larger organization.
Hope this wasn't too boring.

RK

09-03-2002, 01:45 PM	#1
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Waffenampt Pin This Center Toggle Pin is from a 2nd Var. 1937 S/42 and is stamped with the Eagle 63 Waffenampt. It's the first time I see this. Can somebody help on this mystery? [img]confused.gif[/img] kidvett [img]cool.gif[/img]

09-06-2002, 11:03 AM	#3
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Kidvett, Apparently not! I know I can't! [img]frown.gif[/img] __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

09-07-2002, 07:27 AM	#4
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	My best guess on the WaAed axel is that it came from an armour's repair kit. I've seen many other various parts that were either WaAed or code S/42 or 42 marked spares. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

09-08-2002, 09:27 AM	#10
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	[quote] I think the numbers were removed.... prior to there being inserted into any type of kit! <hr></blockquote> G.T., Is there any evidence that these hold-opens were supplies for an armorer's chest? __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

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09-05-2002, 05:08 PM	#2
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Can somebody HELP on that one... THANKS [img]smile.gif[/img] kidvett

09-07-2002, 10:15 AM	#5
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	I am beginning to think that the armorer replacing of parts in Luger pistols is an important facet of collecting and has been hitherto largely glossed over. For a long time I believed my 41 dated Luger with an S/42 Toggle was an out of sequence assembly as referred to briefly by Jan Still. I am now convinced it is an armorer replacement which was numbered to the gun during the replacement procedure. I also think that the examples shown by Still may very well be replacement examples and not out of sequence pistols.

09-07-2002, 12:57 PM	#6
Garfield User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A little SE of Nome Posts: 239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have never seen an actual field armourers'parts chest. Bender, Luger Holsters and Accessories, shows two such chests and the contents. It would be interesting to know how the parts contained in such a chest were marked/numbered. As Lugerdoc points out, S/42 and 42 were used to indicate replacement parts. I have seen grips, loading tools and magazines so numbered. FWIW, Several years ago I saw four toggle pins that I was told were parts from an armourers' tool box. They were oversized pins and were stamped on the head with numbers indicating how much each was oversize. Been a long time, however, I believe that each was .05mm larger than the other, starting with .05mm. Seems as though they were acceptance/approval stamped also, however, if they were can't recall what it might have been. As my recollection clears after a taste or two, it seems to me that lugerdoc had these verysame toggle pins. But then I may be wrong.

09-07-2002, 09:17 PM	#7
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	At what level would there be an armorer in the Imperial army? Company? At what level would this armorer have a Luger replacement kit? Regimental? Battalion? I'd say regimental. Would the repair kit include rifles, MGs, Lugers, magazines? My guess is the armorer would be at regimental level and the Luger parts would be a section of the full weapons inventory. What parts would be in this repair section? Rifle mainsprings, ejectors, sights, firing pins, stocks, slings, muzzel covers,and barrel bands at the minimum. What about lugers? Sideplates - too difficult? Toggle pins, firing pins, mainsprings, ejectors, grips, magazines, what else? RK

09-08-2002, 01:20 AM	#8
Garfield User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A little SE of Nome Posts: 239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	RK: Don't know about the "level" and am not certain about Imperial field parts kits, however, pictures in Bender indicate all of the items you mention, including side plates. Pics show an inventory list, but, alas, my German is not that good. Whoops, no stocks for the rifles. Just small parts. Muzzle covers, yes. The sling fitting that goes on the right side of the stock, the small stuff.

09-08-2002, 09:07 AM	#9
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,500 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,627 Times in 999 Posts	Hi Guys! I just received some holdopens that are code 42 marked replacement parts.... they are new, never been used... they had a little bit of rust, but all of them were blue and showed no wear on any surface... the odd thing was... where the two digit serial usually was placed, it showed signs of work, and on one of them you could see where the original number ghousted through! I thing the numbers were removed.... prior to there being inserted into any type of kit! Also, I think a large portion of the large parts had numbers on them...for what reason? I don't know?? Anyone know any more on these kits!! till...later...G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

09-08-2002, 12:29 PM	#11
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Garfield, I'm pretty good with German military stuff, if you or someone else can get it to me I'll see what I can do. RK

09-08-2002, 03:05 PM	#12
Garfield User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A little SE of Nome Posts: 239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	RK: Check your private messages

09-08-2002, 05:37 PM	#13
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,500 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,627 Times in 999 Posts	Hi Wes! No evidence of the parts being part of a kit....other then the 42 mark! It just seems that when sellers have any type of quantity to sell, they only have about three or four different items.... it would lead one to think that the parts were the reminent of some type of nearly depleted kit or parts stores...??? But, who knows?? I believe the parts to be as new,... all I have received have been nice original parts! till...later...G.T.

09-08-2002, 10:18 PM	#14
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Got your message sir. Will be in contact tomorrow on a computer that will work better than this antique. Reference "level" of repair, what I meant was military units are allowed to make repairs at certain levels of complexity. Individual the lowest, company next, battalion, then regimental/brigade or division. A company kit is specific to that Table of Organization & Equipment of that company. An infantry company of 120 men in 1917 would have only six - eight Lugers. But a MG company with a kit based on its equipment would have many more Lugers. But still not enough to dedicate a whole repair section to them. Moving on up to Regimental/Brigade level responsible for 25-30 companies would warrant a comprehensive armorer's kit. My point is a company armorer would not have a dedicated repair chest with dozens of parts for only a few guns. Must have been for a larger organization. Hope this wasn't too boring. RK