Refinishing

I don't want to stir up a hornets nest here, but what is the consensus on refinishing? I ask with particular reference to an S/42, 1936, matching piece. This Luger has about 30 - 40% blue, scattered pitting, and the ever present sliver broken off the L grip under the saftey. I would think re-bluing an example such as this would not jepordize its' value. What say you all? Is this a tendency that many have that are new to the avaocation? Thanks for your comments.

[Orv Reichert]

I always suggest that the best thing to do is nothing!


You can ALWAYS blue it...........but, you cannot undo it?


Orv

The old rule that a refinish is equivalent to a 0% finish is a good one. At 30-40% finish, it will have some stronger value than a prettied-up luger. Maybe not noticable in 2002 but in twenty years it might be a meaningful difference. Refinished, though, you can be certain it will have no growth in value beyond that of other 0% lugers. Another way to decide is to ask how much information about the original luger is removed when you alter it. In the case of the 1936 you describe, it loses the information about its original finish and surface condition. If, at some future date, documents surface that provide more information about the history of your specific gun, you may have removed evidence of, eg., its use by a specific person in a specific battle. Perhaps the pits and wear are linked to a specific event or use of the pistol.


That is what you lose if you refinish--you are destroying historic information however small.


By the way, pits are not easy to remove and I find they look worse when blued-over.


Just my opinion but gun values over the decades support it.

[Hugh]

If all matching and some original finish left, and no bad rust, pits, or parts needing replacing, then I leave as is. If mismatched parts, and/or badly rusted, then I reblue if in otherwise good mechanical condition for a shooter.

[Dok]

I would want to know what the value of this piece would be at present. Many on the forum have suggested that pieces below 60% original finish get little interest from collectors, and therefor in years to come it's inheirent value will be likewise depressed.


Notwithstanding the excellent points made above, if you choose to refinish it, if kept in good condition, it will keep pace with the market value of a shooter Luger, which despite what some will say, I maintain is higher than $400, closer to $600-$800. I think a well maintained, excellently (re)finished, mechanically sound, shootable Luger would fetch at least as much as any modern firearm, because of that history we talk so much about. Not from a collector perhaps, but from a shooter who just loves Lugers - I certainly would, (DID) pay that.


Just the opinion of a shooter who loves Lugers.


Dok

[Dan Clemons]

All are valid points. I chose to re-blue my all-matching Artillery. I paid an all-matching price for the gun. Had the blue been 95% plus, I would have paid a lot more. Had it been 99%, the price would have doubled. So now I have rust protection, a good-looking piece, it's a kicked up shooter. I paid a kicked up all matching shooter price for it and that is what it will be worth to the next owner. In my opinion CONDITION will always dictate price. I also have a museum background where restoration is a good word.


Dan

[Lonnie Zimmerman]

I faced the same question with my K date. It had one mismatched number (sear bar) and badly pitted grip straps. The only bluing left was on the toggle. The grips were bad as was the straw. I finially decided to send it to Thor for restoration. Thor did a FANTASTIC job on the pistol and Hugh did the same on the grips. It looked like new and I was very glad I did it. It can be seen on Ted"s sight as K date #2.


Lonnie

I for one fully embrace the view expressed on Luger collectability by Bill Utterback. I catergorize Luger finishes as factory original, arsenal re-finishes (these range in origins and time frames and must be evaluated as such but the mere fact that a Luger has been Arsenal re-worked does not in and of itself kill or in many cases hurt it's value ie all "MA" Lugers are arsenal re-finishes and these command a premium.), also you have expert restorations like the work performed by Ted. I believe that the finish that excludes any firearm from valid collection interest is the poor over buffed improper "gunsmith" and or "kitchen table" re-blue (and nickle plates) as these destroy the appeareance of how the piece looked when it was in official use. We can argue about this until the cows come home but I will insist that there is no single entity as a unified body of collectors that have one correct opinion and every item must be evaluated againist itself.

I say--restore it. If it doesn't look good to you now; it will not look any better 20 years from now. If the well healed collectors do not want it now, they will not likely want it in 20 years either. I note quite a few Lugers on market as restored that seem to bring more than same in 40% orig condition. The Key word is RESRORE---not a buffing wheel ground reblue job. Retore it and enjoy it more.

[Dok]

[Orv Reichert]

Restoration is not the same as REBLUE!


If a gun is properly restored, you should not be able to tell that it was done! A reblue is a reblue..and, certainly, not the same thing!


I am an old 'hot-rodder' and, to me, restoration is not a bad word!


Orv Reichert

[Luke]

I went through EXACTLY the same process as Dan Clemons with my 1917 artillery. Thor RESTORED it, and it now looks like a factory-fresh DWM.


Yes, I might have decreased the collector value, but I have no plans to EVER sell it. It is a wonderful shooter and it looks like a million dollars.


No regrets.

You guys were asked a question about what effect refinishing would have on the value of a well-worn luger. Too many people are offering confusing comments about how they love their refinished pistols. Again, the value of a refinished pistol is and will be weaker than the value of an original finish pistol as a general rule. The 60% finish rule is a rule of thumb that states the value of less than 60% finish lugers is not noticably different from that of a mismatch or reblue. As the absolute dollar value of lugers rises with inflation and growth, that will change. Dave Hopkins asked a question and he will be at no risk of lost value if he keeps the pistol as original--there is a risk of lost value if he refinishes it--that is the bottom line.


I also have some museum background and we stabilized, conserved, preserved, repaired, but did not "restore". Restore is a slang term that usually means making presentable a unique item for display. We occasionally repaired and stabilized an item to prevent more damage but this was reserved for only severely damaged, vulnerable, or deteriorated items.


Just some inputs.

Noticed on the inventory list at World of Lugers that several "restored" lugers have recently sold in the asking price range from $ 650 to $ 1200.00 (Inventory #'s 5652, 5650, 5394, 5349).


This would imply there is a market at or even above shooter prices...


Have seen some restored lugers come and go at adamsguns.com and also on gunsamerica.com during the past few months.


...My 2 scents....(cents)

I have seen some nice museums with a lot of expensive and valuable "slang" cars and airplanes. Perhaps the word restore is a slang term only to those not capable of doing such professional work. I think the man wants to make his Luger look more presentable to himself----why not let him do it for gods sake.

[Johnny Peppers]

The value of the restored Luger will almost entirely depend on what it was before it was restored. I don't know if he still has it or not, but Bob Simson had a restored Model 1900 7" in the early 10,000 serial number range with a reproduction stock priced at $22,500.

A K Date side inscribed Navy in 60% condition would be a welcome addition to most anyone's collection. There can be no hard and fast rules that apply to each and every Luger. They all must be taken on their own merits.

[Big Norm]

Restoration depends on who does the restoration. I have seen work that makes the Luger look like "New In Box". But I believe that anybody who turns a buffing wheel on a Luger should have their fingers cut off, if not worse. They have absolutely destroyed the gun by doing a down and dirty quicky job. Good restoration is a work of art and many just do not have the talent or the focus on detail. Detail such as using the appropriate type of bluing.


Restoring a Luger can also hide counterfeiting to jack up the price. I don't know how many times I have seen beautiful Lugers destroyed by guys etching in unit marks and then rebluing the gun.


A well done restoration is not such a bad thing. But there are just too many hackers out there who butcher good Lugers. I would never buy a Luger thats been restored without physically inspecting the gun first. I have been burned too many times by hackers.

Big Norm

[Johnny Peppers]

It would be hard to classify any weapon that has been buffed all to hell and blued as a restoration. The local gunshops do blue jobs, but not restorations.

If you want to sling some sarcasm, learn about your subject. Those valuable car restorations are very rare--if they were in original finish and in top condition (none may exist), you would see the value higher. Restoration is not preferred to conservation?

Sounds like we are getting nasty again.