Toggle won't stay open??

AMBROLA · 07-25-2011, 01:52 PM

Hi guys,
I am new to the forum and also to Lugers. I have a chance to buy this one, but shouldn't the toggle stay open when you pull it back? I have taken the gun apart, and everything looks as it should to my untrained eyes. It will not stay back unless you put a loaded mag in. Help please.

alanint · 07-25-2011, 01:57 PM

Does the toggle stay back when there is an empty magazine in the gun? The toggle hold-open is magazine actuated. It will not work on its own.

If the hold-open will not work on an empty mag, then you probably have a weak hold-open spring or a chipped or damaged hold-open device.

AMBROLA · 07-25-2011, 01:59 PM

No it will not stay open with empty mag. Where is the spring??

Ron Wood · 07-25-2011, 02:03 PM

It is attached to the forward part of the hold open.

Norme · 07-25-2011, 02:15 PM

Hi Ronnie, Welcome to the forum! As the others have mentioned, a defective hold-open is one possibility, another is a defective magazine. Regards, Norm

AMBROLA · 07-25-2011, 02:17 PM

Is that looking down in the chamber?? And also, the toggle is very hard to pull back. My hands are sore.

alanint · 07-25-2011, 02:20 PM

This is looking down straight into the magazine well from the top with the upper part of the pistol removed.

Norme · 07-25-2011, 02:24 PM

Hi Ronnie, Me again. It looks like a nice gun, but the front sight blade is not original. Regards, Norm

AMBROLA · 07-25-2011, 02:44 PM

Not worth 800.00??

alanint · 07-25-2011, 03:28 PM

There are not enough detailed photos of the gun to make an informed call. Based on what I see parts of the pistol may have been reblued, (as in the sideplate) and the fit of the grips as well as the front sight indicate replacements. If all these issues were the reality then $800 would be on the high side of a fair price for the gun.

Is the magazine marked in any way?

AMBROLA · 07-25-2011, 03:30 PM

Thanks for you guys quick replys. I want a Luger, but it has to be right. I am very picky with my guns.

alanint · 07-25-2011, 03:48 PM

Can anybody also chime in on whether the extractor should be numbered to the gun at this late production date?

Norme · 07-25-2011, 04:08 PM

Hi Doug, My 42 byf has a numbered extractor, but it also has the same clumsily finished side-plate as Ronnie's (see photo). With the exception of that front sight blade, I think the gun is OK and well worth $800.00.
Hi Ronnie, In your first photo I notice that the magazine is not fully inserted. Was it this way when the gun did not hold open? Regards, Norm

AMBROLA · 07-26-2011, 04:56 AM

Hi Norm,
No, I had it all the way in, in fact, I even pushed as hard as I could to make sure that was not the problem. The mag has fxo amd another mark on it. Would that be right for this gun and was it carried by the German Military?

I am buying a Colt Peacemaker 22 from him today at 350.00. I am going to offer 1000.00 for the 2. Then I think I woulb be ok????

sheepherder · 07-26-2011, 06:51 AM

Front sight looks vaguely Finnish...Are there any markings on the barrel???

AMBROLA · 07-26-2011, 10:20 AM

I took the gun apart this morning and the hold open is not even there?
The markings on the barrell are serial #6558. Should I look for anything else? I have to do something today.
Here, I just snapped some pics???

alanint · 07-26-2011, 10:40 AM

You are indeed missing your holdopen. This is a part that our own Tom Heller, (Luger Doc) can supply you. Perhaps even with a matching number.

Your gun looks like it has the original finish. Norm made an excellent case for an original, unmessed with sideplate.

On the minus side, you still have a non original front sight, non original grips, non numbered extractor and a missing hold-open and spring.

On the plus side, it appears to be an original finish gun, the front sight is easely replaced as is the hold-open, (albeit perhaps mismatched). The extractor should match as well. Your magazine is a desirable FXO worth perhaps $150 plus.
You never mention if the balance of the gun, (safety lever, sear block, sear, firing pin, all toggle sections, etc) match the gun. Is there any letter sufix under the serial number on the front of the frame above the trigger guard?
In short, several issues balanced against an original finish and largely matching gun.
If I were making the decision, I would want to get into this gun for about $650 to $700

DavidJayUden · 07-26-2011, 10:41 AM

So it is missing the numbered hold-open, the front sight blade is a replacement and the grips are suspect. Be careful because while a nice Luger it is no real bargain even at $800.
dju

AMBROLA · 07-26-2011, 10:52 AM

It has the letter D under the barrell. The number 58 is on all the parts I can see. I couldn't find anything on the trigger when taken out. As for some of the other parts, like the firing pin, I am not versed enough to take it all the way down. I f I can get it at 650.00 would I be ok you think?

What is the extractor???

DavidJayUden · 07-26-2011, 11:31 AM

Extractor is the funny hook thing on top that reaches over the front of the bolt to pull the case from the chamber.
Seems like a reasonable deal at $650 as long as it is what you want, a shooter. If your heart is set on a collectable, then pass on it and prepare to spend 2x that amount.
dju

07-25-2011, 01:52 PM	#1
AMBROLA User Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 23 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Toggle won't stay open?? Hi guys, I am new to the forum and also to Lugers. I have a chance to buy this one, but shouldn't the toggle stay open when you pull it back? I have taken the gun apart, and everything looks as it should to my untrained eyes. It will not stay back unless you put a loaded mag in. Help please.

07-25-2011, 02:03 PM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	It is attached to the forward part of the hold open. Attached Images __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-25-2011, 04:08 PM	#13
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Doug, My 42 byf has a numbered extractor, but it also has the same clumsily finished side-plate as Ronnie's (see photo). With the exception of that front sight blade, I think the gun is OK and well worth $800.00. Hi Ronnie, In your first photo I notice that the magazine is not fully inserted. Was it this way when the gun did not hold open? Regards, Norm Attached Thumbnails

07-26-2011, 06:51 AM	#15
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	Front sight looks vaguely Finnish...Are there any markings on the barrel??? __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

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07-25-2011, 01:57 PM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Does the toggle stay back when there is an empty magazine in the gun? The toggle hold-open is magazine actuated. It will not work on its own. If the hold-open will not work on an empty mag, then you probably have a weak hold-open spring or a chipped or damaged hold-open device.

07-25-2011, 01:59 PM	#3
AMBROLA User Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 23 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	No it will not stay open with empty mag. Where is the spring??

07-25-2011, 02:15 PM	#5
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Ronnie, Welcome to the forum! As the others have mentioned, a defective hold-open is one possibility, another is a defective magazine. Regards, Norm

07-25-2011, 02:17 PM	#6
AMBROLA User Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 23 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Is that looking down in the chamber?? And also, the toggle is very hard to pull back. My hands are sore.

07-25-2011, 02:20 PM	#7
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	This is looking down straight into the magazine well from the top with the upper part of the pistol removed.

07-25-2011, 02:24 PM	#8
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Ronnie, Me again. It looks like a nice gun, but the front sight blade is not original. Regards, Norm

07-25-2011, 02:44 PM	#9
AMBROLA User Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 23 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Not worth 800.00??

07-25-2011, 03:28 PM	#10
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	There are not enough detailed photos of the gun to make an informed call. Based on what I see parts of the pistol may have been reblued, (as in the sideplate) and the fit of the grips as well as the front sight indicate replacements. If all these issues were the reality then $800 would be on the high side of a fair price for the gun. Is the magazine marked in any way?

07-25-2011, 03:30 PM	#11
AMBROLA User Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 23 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for you guys quick replys. I want a Luger, but it has to be right. I am very picky with my guns.

07-25-2011, 03:48 PM	#12
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Can anybody also chime in on whether the extractor should be numbered to the gun at this late production date?

07-26-2011, 04:56 AM	#14
AMBROLA User Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 23 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Norm, No, I had it all the way in, in fact, I even pushed as hard as I could to make sure that was not the problem. The mag has fxo amd another mark on it. Would that be right for this gun and was it carried by the German Military? I am buying a Colt Peacemaker 22 from him today at 350.00. I am going to offer 1000.00 for the 2. Then I think I woulb be ok????

07-26-2011, 10:20 AM	#16
AMBROLA User Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 23 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I took the gun apart this morning and the hold open is not even there? The markings on the barrell are serial #6558. Should I look for anything else? I have to do something today. Here, I just snapped some pics???

07-26-2011, 10:40 AM	#17
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	You are indeed missing your holdopen. This is a part that our own Tom Heller, (Luger Doc) can supply you. Perhaps even with a matching number. Your gun looks like it has the original finish. Norm made an excellent case for an original, unmessed with sideplate. On the minus side, you still have a non original front sight, non original grips, non numbered extractor and a missing hold-open and spring. On the plus side, it appears to be an original finish gun, the front sight is easely replaced as is the hold-open, (albeit perhaps mismatched). The extractor should match as well. Your magazine is a desirable FXO worth perhaps $150 plus. You never mention if the balance of the gun, (safety lever, sear block, sear, firing pin, all toggle sections, etc) match the gun. Is there any letter sufix under the serial number on the front of the frame above the trigger guard? In short, several issues balanced against an original finish and largely matching gun. If I were making the decision, I would want to get into this gun for about $650 to $700

07-26-2011, 10:41 AM	#18
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	So it is missing the numbered hold-open, the front sight blade is a replacement and the grips are suspect. Be careful because while a nice Luger it is no real bargain even at $800. dju

07-26-2011, 10:52 AM	#19
AMBROLA User Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 23 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It has the letter D under the barrell. The number 58 is on all the parts I can see. I couldn't find anything on the trigger when taken out. As for some of the other parts, like the firing pin, I am not versed enough to take it all the way down. I f I can get it at 650.00 would I be ok you think? What is the extractor???

07-26-2011, 11:31 AM	#20
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Extractor is the funny hook thing on top that reaches over the front of the bolt to pull the case from the chamber. Seems like a reasonable deal at $650 as long as it is what you want, a shooter. If your heart is set on a collectable, then pass on it and prepare to spend 2x that amount. dju