1938 Luger - info and appraisal

DonWallbaum · 11-16-2008, 01:26 PM

Gentlefolk;

I would appreciate any history, comments or appraisal of my 1938 Luger. Pls. bear in mind that I have very little knowledge about Lugers in general. This is one brought back from WWII from my father, and while I have info on how he got it, I don't have any idea about the history or the value of the weapon itself.

Any info appreciated. I apologize for the quality of the photos - I have learned something about my digicam. If the quality is not sufficient for evaluation, pls. let me know and I will reshoot.

Many thanks!

Don

DonWallbaum · 11-16-2008, 01:35 PM

Clicked Submit too soon... I can't edit my mssgs. on this forum?

Can I include thumbnails in mssgs.? I didn't see an obvious way to do it.

Thanks all!

Don

John Sabato · 11-17-2008, 12:15 PM

Hello Don,

You can edit your posts by using the pencil/paper icon at the bottom right of each of your posts... Only moderators can edit other members posts.

If all the parts on your father's Luger end in "81" it would be considered a matching part pistol and the condition shown in your photos puts the value at a minimum of $1200 IMHO and in the opinion of others who are actively collecting (I am not) it may run north of $2000.

It is a very nice 1938 Mauser produced Luger pistol...

DonWallbaum · 11-17-2008, 12:28 PM

John;

I had the piece field-stripped this weekend, and yes, all the numbered parts match "81".

Now, what indicates the Mauser-produced version, vs. the other versions produced? And in the realm of Lugers, does one producer have greater cache than others?

My understanding is DWM was the original producer of Lugers, and Mauser and others manufactured under license?

Thank you for your assessment, and for the info about editing the messages I post. I had not noticed the "notepad" icon - other forums I am on have an "edit" button, and that was what I was looking for.

Well, maybe I should clean up the holster then too....

May not be a bad idea to contact the insurance agent also...

Many thanks!

Don

John Sabato · 11-17-2008, 02:47 PM

Please show us photos of your holster. It its condition is about the condition of your Luger it is likely worth a few hundred dollars all by itself.

I recommend that you clean the holster only with a good shoe buffing brush (no dye or polish).

Keep it dry and cool and filled with bubble wrap to maintain the shape.

Use a magazine sized piece of lumber as filler for the magazine pocket to maintain its shape and leave the holster unsnapped and unbuckled to preserve it. snapping and buckling will only wear out the leather. Remember it is 60 years old and leather has a finite life.

DO NOT store the gun in it. (that encourages rust)

Put a piece of folded bubble wrap about the thickness of a gunbelt in the belt loops so they don't get permanently folded flat if stored on it's back.

The magazine you show in your photos is the finest type. It is extruded steel and not folded sheet metal. They range in price from about $125 to 250...

A phone call to put a firearms rider on your insurance policy is recommended in case you are (God Forbid) ever burglarized, but even insurance can't make up for the loss of a family heirloom like your father's war souvenier. What outfit did he serve with if I may ask... My late father served with the 39th Inf Regt, 9th Infantry Division.

The indicators of Mauser manufacture are the S/42 on the toggle (wartime code for the Mauser plant during 1938) and the slightly visible "bumps" on the back of the frame "ears"... often called the Mauser bump. The bump was a change to ensure the retention of the rear toggle pin during the firing cycle...

I suggest you take some time to go to your public library and borrow every Luger publication reference they can get your hands on... you are about to become addicted to the history of your father's war souvenier... don't ask how I know. I have been studying their history and use for about 50 years. A fully featured personal library of the published references for the Luger pistol will run you multiple hundreds of dollars.

If you read ALL the information on this forum (10 years worth, and no expense involved)... you will be well informed as well as entertained.

There are excellent videos on youtube.com made by a forum member that will teach you all you need to know about assembly and disassembly...

DonWallbaum · 11-17-2008, 03:20 PM

Thanks so much, John. Actually have two mags for it.

The holster is not in incredibly good shape (since we ride horses, we know a little bit about leather) so my first impluse was to condition it with Lexol or some other deep conditioner. Good or bad?

The leather isnt cracked, just not supple.

I will post a pic on the holster here for review.

Ummm... don't know what outfit my father was in.. he was tank company commander in Patton's Third Army, but I don't recall if he ever mentioned the division/regiment info.

He arrived in theater late in the war (by careful planning on his part) and had his company in... I want to say Czechoslovakia, though I could be off on that detail. Anyway, he came across a German army... platoon, company... some unit, which was trying to find an American or British unit to surrender to. The alternative would be to surrender to the Russians, and THAT was not in their plans at ALL. I gather the battle that ensued was neither nasty, or brutish, but quite short...non-existant in fact.

Anyway, from that encounter came the Luger.

His war experiences bear more resemblance to "Catch-22" than "Saving Private Ryan" but that is with the hindsight of 60 years, and the benefit of not being in the war personally.

He and my mother stayed in the country for several years after the war, and by all accounts, post-war Germany was QUITE the fun gig...anything could be had for a carton of cigarettes, incredible child care services were available (the nanny for my sister and myself, both born in-country, was part of the Wunderkinder program, and by all accounts incredibly skilled). It is, in short, great to be the victor.

So, WWII has always been an interest of mine, with particular interest in the German armed forces. I would like to know more about the eastern front/Russian battles, but I haven't found a whole lot written on that part of the war. Suggestions?

Don

John Sabato · 11-17-2008, 03:31 PM

No anything on the leather IMHO... the lexol or anything else you might have used is intended for making leather ready for use... not preservation of an historical artifact. My Dad's unit fought in eight major campaigns... he survived them all with only two purple hearts and a bronze star, and a battlefield commission to 2nd Lieutenant...

Algeria-French Morocco (8 - 11 Nov 1942)

Tunisia (7 Nov 1942 - 13 May 1943)

Sicily (9 Jul - 17 Aug 1943)

Normandy (6 Jun - 24 Jul 1944)

Northern France (25 Jul - 14 Sep 1944)

Rhineland (15 Sep 1944 - 21 Mar 1945)

Ardennes-Alsace (16 Dec 1944 - 25 Jan 1945)

Central Europe (22 Mar - 11 May 1945)

Never on the eastern front... perhaps one of the other members can provide you some good historical publications references.

DonWallbaum · 11-17-2008, 03:43 PM

That is an amazing history, John. Your father had his share of the war.

My father enlisted, OCS, tank school, then was given the option of going overseas or staying for 9 mos. stateside to teach tank school. He thought that staying stateside for 9 mos. to teach tank school was a crackerjack good idea. Especially since word got back that, contrary to what _he_ was taught, the tank's armor was NOT particularly robust against the German 88mm.

When he arrived in-theater, the war was all but over. He WAS there to guard the Fulda Gap after the war, and wondered what his very small tank company could to do stop the planned Russian invasion....

Amazing times. It is staggering to think that the planet survived that era...

rhomeeyeball · 11-19-2008, 10:24 AM

One of the best books about the Eastern Front I have read is " The Forgotten Soldier " by Guy Sajer. I have read it more than once.
Also " Sniper on the Eastern Front: The Memoirs of Sepp Allerberger, Knight's Cross "
If you are interested in the air war the try " The Blond Knight of Germany " which is about Erich Hartmann who is the all time leading air ace with 352 victories confirmed.
There are MANY more. If you would like more please ask
Thanks

DonWallbaum · 11-19-2008, 12:33 PM

Thanks, rhomeeyeball;

One story I _would_ be very interested in, speaking of snipers, is that famous Russian sniper in... Stalingrad? Took out something like 3 divisions of German infantry using the same bullet he recovered from each kill... drawing a blank on the name now, but there have been a coupla stories on his exploits on the History Channel. Absolutely amazing to hear of his range and abilities.

I have copied down your recommends and start the search! Luckily, the Columbus, OH library has a SUPER online search and order system.

alanint · 11-19-2008, 02:21 PM

You may be thinking of Vasilli Zaitsev, whose exploits, while remarkable, have been greatly exagerated by Soviet propaganda and Hollywood hype

http://militarybooks.tripod.com/sniping.htm

DonWallbaum · 11-19-2008, 02:28 PM

Vasilli Zaitsev

Yup, that is the guy Im thinking of. Had Hitler pinned down in his bunker from a firing position in Moscow, IIRC.

11-16-2008, 01:26 PM	#1
DonWallbaum User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Logan, OH USA Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	1938 Luger - info and appraisal Gentlefolk; I would appreciate any history, comments or appraisal of my 1938 Luger. Pls. bear in mind that I have very little knowledge about Lugers in general. This is one brought back from WWII from my father, and while I have info on how he got it, I don't have any idea about the history or the value of the weapon itself. Any info appreciated. I apologize for the quality of the photos - I have learned something about my digicam. If the quality is not sufficient for evaluation, pls. let me know and I will reshoot. Many thanks! Don

11-17-2008, 12:15 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Hello Don, You can edit your posts by using the pencil/paper icon at the bottom right of each of your posts... Only moderators can edit other members posts. If all the parts on your father's Luger end in "81" it would be considered a matching part pistol and the condition shown in your photos puts the value at a minimum of $1200 IMHO and in the opinion of others who are actively collecting (I am not) it may run north of $2000. It is a very nice 1938 Mauser produced Luger pistol... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-17-2008, 02:47 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Please show us photos of your holster. It its condition is about the condition of your Luger it is likely worth a few hundred dollars all by itself. I recommend that you clean the holster only with a good shoe buffing brush (no dye or polish). Keep it dry and cool and filled with bubble wrap to maintain the shape. Use a magazine sized piece of lumber as filler for the magazine pocket to maintain its shape and leave the holster unsnapped and unbuckled to preserve it. snapping and buckling will only wear out the leather. Remember it is 60 years old and leather has a finite life. DO NOT store the gun in it. (that encourages rust) Put a piece of folded bubble wrap about the thickness of a gunbelt in the belt loops so they don't get permanently folded flat if stored on it's back. The magazine you show in your photos is the finest type. It is extruded steel and not folded sheet metal. They range in price from about $125 to 250... A phone call to put a firearms rider on your insurance policy is recommended in case you are (God Forbid) ever burglarized, but even insurance can't make up for the loss of a family heirloom like your father's war souvenier. What outfit did he serve with if I may ask... My late father served with the 39th Inf Regt, 9th Infantry Division. The indicators of Mauser manufacture are the S/42 on the toggle (wartime code for the Mauser plant during 1938) and the slightly visible "bumps" on the back of the frame "ears"... often called the Mauser bump. The bump was a change to ensure the retention of the rear toggle pin during the firing cycle... I suggest you take some time to go to your public library and borrow every Luger publication reference they can get your hands on... you are about to become addicted to the history of your father's war souvenier... don't ask how I know. I have been studying their history and use for about 50 years. A fully featured personal library of the published references for the Luger pistol will run you multiple hundreds of dollars. If you read ALL the information on this forum (10 years worth, and no expense involved)... you will be well informed as well as entertained. There are excellent videos on youtube.com made by a forum member that will teach you all you need to know about assembly and disassembly... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-17-2008, 03:31 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	No anything on the leather IMHO... the lexol or anything else you might have used is intended for making leather ready for use... not preservation of an historical artifact. My Dad's unit fought in eight major campaigns... he survived them all with only two purple hearts and a bronze star, and a battlefield commission to 2nd Lieutenant... Algeria-French Morocco (8 - 11 Nov 1942) Tunisia (7 Nov 1942 - 13 May 1943) Sicily (9 Jul - 17 Aug 1943) Normandy (6 Jun - 24 Jul 1944) Northern France (25 Jul - 14 Sep 1944) Rhineland (15 Sep 1944 - 21 Mar 1945) Ardennes-Alsace (16 Dec 1944 - 25 Jan 1945) Central Europe (22 Mar - 11 May 1945) Never on the eastern front... perhaps one of the other members can provide you some good historical publications references. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

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11-16-2008, 01:35 PM	#2
DonWallbaum User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Logan, OH USA Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Clicked Submit too soon... I can't edit my mssgs. on this forum? Can I include thumbnails in mssgs.? I didn't see an obvious way to do it. Thanks all! Don

11-17-2008, 12:28 PM	#4
DonWallbaum User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Logan, OH USA Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	John; I had the piece field-stripped this weekend, and yes, all the numbered parts match "81". Now, what indicates the Mauser-produced version, vs. the other versions produced? And in the realm of Lugers, does one producer have greater cache than others? My understanding is DWM was the original producer of Lugers, and Mauser and others manufactured under license? Thank you for your assessment, and for the info about editing the messages I post. I had not noticed the "notepad" icon - other forums I am on have an "edit" button, and that was what I was looking for. Well, maybe I should clean up the holster then too.... May not be a bad idea to contact the insurance agent also... Many thanks! Don

11-17-2008, 03:20 PM	#6
DonWallbaum User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Logan, OH USA Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks so much, John. Actually have two mags for it. The holster is not in incredibly good shape (since we ride horses, we know a little bit about leather) so my first impluse was to condition it with Lexol or some other deep conditioner. Good or bad? The leather isnt cracked, just not supple. I will post a pic on the holster here for review. Ummm... don't know what outfit my father was in.. he was tank company commander in Patton's Third Army, but I don't recall if he ever mentioned the division/regiment info. He arrived in theater late in the war (by careful planning on his part) and had his company in... I want to say Czechoslovakia, though I could be off on that detail. Anyway, he came across a German army... platoon, company... some unit, which was trying to find an American or British unit to surrender to. The alternative would be to surrender to the Russians, and THAT was not in their plans at ALL. I gather the battle that ensued was neither nasty, or brutish, but quite short...non-existant in fact. Anyway, from that encounter came the Luger. His war experiences bear more resemblance to "Catch-22" than "Saving Private Ryan" but that is with the hindsight of 60 years, and the benefit of not being in the war personally. He and my mother stayed in the country for several years after the war, and by all accounts, post-war Germany was QUITE the fun gig...anything could be had for a carton of cigarettes, incredible child care services were available (the nanny for my sister and myself, both born in-country, was part of the Wunderkinder program, and by all accounts incredibly skilled). It is, in short, great to be the victor. So, WWII has always been an interest of mine, with particular interest in the German armed forces. I would like to know more about the eastern front/Russian battles, but I haven't found a whole lot written on that part of the war. Suggestions? Don

11-17-2008, 03:43 PM	#8
DonWallbaum User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Logan, OH USA Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	That is an amazing history, John. Your father had his share of the war. My father enlisted, OCS, tank school, then was given the option of going overseas or staying for 9 mos. stateside to teach tank school. He thought that staying stateside for 9 mos. to teach tank school was a crackerjack good idea. Especially since word got back that, contrary to what _he_ was taught, the tank's armor was NOT particularly robust against the German 88mm. When he arrived in-theater, the war was all but over. He WAS there to guard the Fulda Gap after the war, and wondered what his very small tank company could to do stop the planned Russian invasion.... Amazing times. It is staggering to think that the planet survived that era...

11-19-2008, 10:24 AM	#9
rhomeeyeball New User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	One of the best books about the Eastern Front I have read is " The Forgotten Soldier " by Guy Sajer. I have read it more than once. Also " Sniper on the Eastern Front: The Memoirs of Sepp Allerberger, Knight's Cross " If you are interested in the air war the try " The Blond Knight of Germany " which is about Erich Hartmann who is the all time leading air ace with 352 victories confirmed. There are MANY more. If you would like more please ask Thanks

11-19-2008, 12:33 PM	#10
DonWallbaum User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Logan, OH USA Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks, rhomeeyeball; One story I _would_ be very interested in, speaking of snipers, is that famous Russian sniper in... Stalingrad? Took out something like 3 divisions of German infantry using the same bullet he recovered from each kill... drawing a blank on the name now, but there have been a coupla stories on his exploits on the History Channel. Absolutely amazing to hear of his range and abilities. I have copied down your recommends and start the search! Luckily, the Columbus, OH library has a SUPER online search and order system.

11-19-2008, 02:21 PM	#11
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	You may be thinking of Vasilli Zaitsev, whose exploits, while remarkable, have been greatly exagerated by Soviet propaganda and Hollywood hype http://militarybooks.tripod.com/sniping.htm

11-19-2008, 02:28 PM	#12
DonWallbaum User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Logan, OH USA Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Vasilli Zaitsev Yup, that is the guy Im thinking of. Had Hitler pinned down in his bunker from a firing position in Moscow, IIRC.