Help needed Belgian or Dutch Nagant?

[broomhandle]

Hi All,

In a fit of gun frenzy I bought a Nagant marked revolver(serial #12xx) in nice shape marked.
DOUANE belge crown JD (on three lines)

I thought it was a Belgian Nagant 1887 Officers model, It has a hex barrel. It seems to be 9 mm x 23R . (only found one picture on the net)

I have found out that cut down 30-30 cases fit well.
The true bullet size seems to be .373 - .375

I cannot find matching Belgian proofs in my book. (maybe made for the Dutch ? )
The proof on my revolver is E GB with a five pointed star inside a ovel.
Is it black powder or smokeless?

I have been told there is a close match for a Dutch revolver of the same era. (in Handloader Manual for cartridge conversions) I have to buy a copy!

Can some one check your proof book for me? I only have the Standard Directory of proof marks ( light green paper back)

It is in very nice shape for a 117 year old revolver.
The bore is sharp & has lots of finish on it.

Thanks for any help,
broomhandle

[broomhandle]

Hi All,

Added thought!

I thought this would be a nice addition to my small (5) Russian Nagant collection. 1917,1923, 1927, 1933 & 1945

Thanks for any help,
broom

[Vlim]

Hi,

Douane is Dutch/Belgian/French for 'customs' .

'Douane Belge' would mean 'Belgians Customs'.

The ELG with a star inside a cartouche without a crown on top is usually the blackpowder frontloader barrel proof. Can't find an EBG, so I think the B is an L (for Liege, location of the proof house).

[broomhandle]

Hello Forum members,

I have the pistol in front of me. The proofs are EGB star. It is not a L
The proof is marked on the barrel & frame.(very sharp & clear.

There is a proof or accpetance mark under the DOUANE BELGE marking.
It is a crown over JD in a horizontal ovel.

I thought, I mentioned in another post, a close looking French marking (Paris proof) Page 134 Standard directory of Proof marks.
with out the crown a stylised X....This revolver has the crown with the "Paris"style proof on the frame under the hammer.
This is FUN trying to track this pistol down.

I will try to post a few pictures.

Thanks for all your help,
broomhandle

[broomhandle]

Hi Tac,

Please, broom will do (smile) I'm just a fellow gun nut!

I saw a load listing for a Dutch pistol of the same era, the book recomended 1 1/2 to 1 2/3 grains of Bullseye powder with a 152 lead grain bullet.

I am in no rush to ruin the revolver or myself.

I can wait for more infomation to surface. I sent for two books last night & will try another book dealer for two other collector books that may mention it.

I thank you & the other posters for your help with this old revolver.

Be well & safe,
broom

[Vlim]

Hi,

Photos of the marks would help, as the marks you describe are not consistent with either Belgian, Dutch or French proof marks. One of the markings is the customs property mark, see below.

A foreign gun, proofed in Belgium would have the crowned cartouche with a styled L at least once on it. A gun made in Belgium and proofed there would have the ELG/cartouche as described earlier.

Does your gun look somewhat like this?





These pistols were introduced for the Belgian customs offices in 1901.
By royal decrete of the 3rd of juli 1901 it was said:
-Customs agents, lower brigadiers and brigadiers were equipped with a carabine of the Terssen design, including a bajonet and a Nagant revolver with a stamped customs marking.
-Lower leftenants and higher officers wore an infantry officers sable.
-Customs agents, lower brigadiers and brigadiers were issued a leather belt with silver buckle, sable holder, carrying belt for the carabine and a leather cartridge pouch.
-While wearing ceremonial dress the brigadiers were allowed to carry the sable of the adjunct of infantry with matching belt and garnitures in white metal.

This reference in Dutch was found on the website of the 'The Belgian Army 1830 - 1914', http://users.pandora.be/ABL1914/index.htm

[broomhandle]

Hello G. Van Vlimmeren,


Yes Sir, That is my pistol! Thank you!

The one in your picture is very early one "5xx" --- My revolver is 12xx.
Do you have any idea how many were made?

Would you know if it is black powder or smokless powder proofed?

I have taken pictures & will try to post them tomorrow.
My wife knows how to post, I seem to have a problem.

Would you have any idea of price of this model pistol?
I think, I will keep it as it is in very nice orignal shape.
I have not cleaned it yet.

Thank you for your help,
broomhandle

[broomhandle]

Hello G. V,

I tried to post the picture twice no luck, will try tomorrow morning.

Be will & safe,
broom

[Vlim]

Hi,

The top one was sold by Hermann Historica for 1200 Euros. It had serial number 2109, but the problem is that the customs guns don't seem to have consecutive serial numbers. They are mixed with normal officer's models. You may want to check out the auction results:

http://www.hermann-historica.de/aukt...db=kat47_S.txt

[broomhandle]

Hello G.V.

Thank you for your help. The revolvers all seem to be in better than normal condition for there age. The priceing mentioned is a big help to me.

I have just a very small collection of books & old firearms. I have found no one in this area with any infomation on this type of firearm.

If you come up with any other infomation please let me know.

I have made up a few cases (modified from 30-30 Winchester brass) that fits the chamber holes well.
I well try to buy some black powder or Pyrodex and try to shoot it. Will gather more infomation.
I have bought two books on cartridge conversions they will be shipped to my home.

Again I thank you for your help with this pistol.

Bewell & safe,
broom

Will try to post pictures soon