How many shots with a Luger does it take to kill a cow?

[AGE]

The 5.56 mm (.223 inch) is a whole different story if you are talking rifle cartridges. The 9 mm FMJ pistol bullet velocity of maybe 1100 ft/sec isn't a whole lot more than the 900 ft/sec of a .45 caliber FMJ pistol bullet so the wound damage caused is less due to the smaller bullet area. The .223 US rifle bullet has a velocity of 3000+ ft/sec and the wound damage is generally a lot more than from even a .45 pistol bullet. Also heavy clothing and 1/4 inch thick steel plates (as well as "bullet proof" vests) provide no protection against the .223 rifle bullet.

That said, the .223 FMJ rifle bullet isn't likely to be quickly effective (at least in theory since I have never been shot with one) for poorly placed hits since the bullet will easily exit the target. However, even wounded opponents don't fight real effectively.

The 5.56 isn't better than the 7.62 but the soldier can carry a whole bunch more ammo (at least 3X) and survive longer in a gunfight (hopefully). Actually, the military still prefers 7.62 for long range fighting.

[unspellable]

All theories aside, simply count how many good hits and how many hitees stopped doing what they were doing, and there is no statistically significant difference between a 9 mm hardball and a 45 hardball.

On the other hand a good expanding bullet from a 357 Mag is the best manstopper known in a handgun. Even beats out the 44 mag as in the latter case most factory loads are intended for hunting and expand a bit too slow for social purposes, tending to overpenetrate and dump energy somewhere beyond the target.

In a load for social purposes, velocity and bullet design count for more than caliber.

The stockyard tests came about in part because of the army's experience in the Philippines. The 38 Colt didn't stop 'em so they brought back the 45 Colt. What fails to be mentioned is that the 45 Colt didn't stop 'em either. Nor did the 30-40 Krag. The Moros were a tough crowd. (Having owned a 30-40 Krag, I've never figured out why the army thought it was such a poor rifle compared to the Mauser. Nothing against the Mauser, it's just that the Krag wasn't all that bad either.)

The modern trend for small caliber rifles in the military is for reduced recoil and weight. This is a valid requirement in the context of "spray and pray". Actually aiming seems to have fallen by the wayside except for a few snipers. Today's infantryman is expected to expend several hundred rounds for one hit as opposed to earlier times when rounds per hit could be counted on the fingers.

[Roadkill]

Age, I'm sure I'm not completely correct, but what I've read is that the Krag side loading system and the single locking lug was inferior to the mauser system interior magazine and double lug. Put a Krag against a trapdoor springfield - 100% improvement- also aren't the 30-40 cartridges rimmed? This is also a problem in magazine fed guns. If not stacked right they hang up.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/30-40krag.htm

rk

[unspellable]

The rimmed cartridge is not automatically a poor feeder in a magazine fed firearm. It depends mostly on the design of the magazine. The Krag was designed from the get go for a rimmed cartrdige and never had any feeding problems, and in fact has a reputation for being the slickest action of any bolt action, even better than the Mauser. The side gate makes it faster to load than a stripper clip fed magazine. You just flip the gate open and dump in a handfull of loose cartridges. Never had one jam. Quick to load while wearing thick mittens.

If one locking lug does the job, the second one is redundant. With the pressures we run today you probably need two, but back then they didn't believe in trying to get hyper velocity out of a short case. The Krag does have a second locking surface at the rear of the bolt as a safety meaure in the event the primary lug fails.

So I will still say that while the Mauser is a nifty rifle, the Krag isn't all that bad either.

Biggest practical difference was the service load. The Mauser round had a light spitzer while the Krag had a heavy round nose bullet, hence a bit slower. But that's the load, not the rifle.

[unspellable]

Stopping power in practice.

I used to do a lot of jack rabbit shooting with a 7.65 Luger loaded with hardball. Never saw one run after being hit with it. Saw plenty of them run after being hit fair and square with a 455 Webley, 30-06, 357 Mag, 38 Spl, 22 LR, 22 Mag, etc., etc. But never saw one run after being hit with the 7.65 Luger.

Go figure...

[Thor]

yep, rabbits are pretty hardy and if you can slam one done hard you have a pretty good defense round. A 9mm with a soft hollow point at 1250 will really put them down good, better than a 45 hardball. There is not a lot of mass, but these Jacks get bigger than house cats!

[unspellable]

Jacks are hard to stop. A cotton tail is easy to stop, will stop most every time when hit with a 22 LR.

But then a jack rabbit isn't a rabbit in the first place, it's a hare. Anybody have any experience with the European or Belgian hare? We used to occasionally find them in south east Michigan. They established them selves there after crossing the river on the ice from Ontario. I had heard that they got started in Ontario by escaping from captivity. Never had occasion to shoot one though.

[Thor]

The hundreds of Jacks I have shot were the Black Tail JAck Rabbit variation. BIG SUCKERS!! I once saw a Jack Rabbit shot in the guts with an 8mm Mauser rifle crawl 30 yds before giving it up!

Kinda makes your trigger finger twitch, dont it UNSPELLABLE!!!

[unspellable]

I put a bullet from a 455 Webley through the boiler room of an Idaho jack fair and square. Went to pick it up and it took off. Never did catch up with it.