need help stripping a 1912 Erfurt for re-finish - Page 2

John Sabato · 10-28-2013, 01:19 PM

The judicious use of a mini butane pencil torch (of the type that is used for browning the top of Creme' Brulee dessert) that is kept moving to affect ONLY the paint and not greatly affect the temperature of the frame should burn the paint crispy so you can brass wire brush it off. I can not overemphasize that you can't hold the torch steady in one spot too long. You must keep it moving. This small size torch miminizes the chance that you will damage the frame. ( see the example from an ebay auction)

If you have ever stripped paint off of wood with a torch that is the technique you need to emulate. Hold it in one place only long enough to burn the paint and then brass brush or scrape it and move on. Once the paint is burnt to ash, it will be easy to brass brush off.

You don't want to burn the "wood" only the paint. Try something simple like the lanyard loop first... This technique will work, but it will be slow.
Good luck, and take lots of photos of your progress and post them here.

DavidJayUden · 10-30-2013, 11:01 PM

A putty knife will help get things started once the paint has softened.
dju

DavidJayUden · 10-31-2013, 10:34 PM

Wonder if soda-blasting would touch the stuff?
Also, I'm still betting that th guys at the chrome plating shop could get it off without weakening the metal, just have to show it to them and express your parameters.
dju

Patronen · 11-01-2013, 07:55 AM

sthomp,
I have a lead for you. Look up Suncorite 259 Enamel, just put it in a search engine on the computer. This may be what was applied to your luger.

Olle · 11-01-2013, 09:07 AM

One last thing to try: Brake fluid. I have used it with great success, especially on plastic parts that would melt if you used harsher chemicals. This is what plastic model builders use to remove a botched paint job, and it seems to strip most types of paint. Go with the cheapest DOT3 you can find, the higher grades won't work. I can't guarantee the result, but a 32 oz bottle will only set you back $6-$7 so it's worth a try.

John Sabato · 11-01-2013, 09:44 AM

To try the brake fluid, if you don't have any on hand, you can get a smaller bottle (or two) 8 oz. size of DOT 3 at most Dollar Tree stores where everything is only a $1.00... and yes, don't spill it on any painted surfaces that you don't intend to strip. DAMHIK.

sthomp · 11-01-2013, 04:38 PM

OK, I GIVE UP! I checked local metal plating and metal stripping businesses around Phoenix and after talking to half a dozen or so, picked one and took all the parts to them...now I won't be able to sleep for a week until I get them back. The old guy there knew exactly what to do, although he couldn't name the black finish on the parts. Rhuff, guess what he is going to use...Methaline Chloride, the active ingredient in Klean-Strip...but a much higher concentration...And the cost, you might ask...why yes sir...$42 includuding hazardous waste disposal!...half of what I've already spent. Now let's not jump for joy until I have them back. Pictures and comments will be forthcoming in a week to 10 days.
BTW, Patronen, I did a search on Suncorite 259 and it sounds EXACTLY like the stuff on my Luger.
If I could have found someone to do soda blasting I would have tried it. The info I found on it and the comments from the local shops sounded encouraging. I don't have compressor and it does make quite a mess. But this shop was ready to go.
So, once again, thanks to all who voiced their thoughts and suggestions and encouragement. Steve

ithacaartist · 11-01-2013, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Sabato

... and yes, don't spill it on any painted surfaces that you don't intend to strip.

I've seen it wrinkle up the paint on a car so that it lifts off like skin. That was a while ago, though, and I'm not sure of its effects on present day auto finishes, which are acrylic. I'm not clairvoyant, John, but how far off is a ring of paint lifted from a car fender?

Olle · 11-02-2013, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

I've seen it wrinkle up the paint on a car so that it lifts off like skin. That was a while ago, though, and I'm not sure of its effects on present day auto finishes, which are acrylic. I'm not clairvoyant, John, but how far off is a ring of paint lifted from a car fender?

I have seen DOT3 wrinkle the paint in the engine compartment of a 71' Camaro I used to own, nicely detailed and freshly painted with modern 2K paint...

Patronen · 11-01-2013, 08:40 PM

http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2653

Here is a thread from another forum about suncorite removal.

sthomp · 11-01-2013, 09:24 PM

yes, the consensus seems to be that Methylene Chloride may be the only thing to hit this stuff. I think that is what GT and I were seeing using the Klean-Strip aerosol which uses a lower concentration of MC. I think the concentration/ percentage of MC in Klean-Strip was just not enough to efficiently get this stuff off quickly. I'm guessing that my shop will use a much more concentrated dose of the MC and get the job done. After the last posted pics from yesterday, I used some 400 grit paper and it did a good job on the flat surfaces, but impossible to get into the nooks and crannies and was not good for corners or in the stamps. I just don't see any other way to get this done than some chemical application...we'll see (and hope).

Vic103 · 11-03-2013, 10:41 AM

After reading all the posts, and all the things you have tried, it sounds like you are gonna have to bead blast it, polish it, and have it salt blued. Then you will have a beautiful Luger. Because of my OCD this is the route I would take. Just my .02 cents. Good luck. It will be an awesome looking Luger.

ithacaartist · 11-03-2013, 07:14 PM

Hey Mark, as Yogi Berra said, "It ain't over until it's over". The jury is still out; let's see what results from the full-strength bath in methylene chloride.

If it does need blasting, I think it could be rust blued again if the surface were sanded and trued after the nooks and crannies are cleaned out. Though the evidence of any such treatment will always exist, it would probably satisfy my OCD!

sthomp · 11-08-2013, 05:28 PM

All right guys...IT'S OVER. I got the parts back today from the local plating shop...they did a wonderful job on it (see pics below). There are a few little spots in some stampings and old pits that didn't come completely clean, but it's 99% in my estimation. Now just getting it ready to ship off to have it re-blued and strawed.
My STRONG advice to anyone faced with this tough of a strip job...take it to a professional!
Many thanks to everyone for their suggestions and best wishes. I will try to remember to post "after" pics when I get it all back together. Steve

rhuff · 11-09-2013, 04:13 PM

Really glad to hear that you were finally successful. It appears as though your restorer now has a good starting place to start making it pretty. I , like many others, frequently feel like I have to give things "a try", but if unsuccessful, then I have to turn to the folks that are really good at the job, and will do it correctly. I look forward to seeing the end product.

kubel · 11-09-2013, 06:35 PM

OK, so I guess the $64 question is, "How'd they do it?" Did they just leave it in a MC bath for a week, pulled it out and "Wah-Lah", all done? Or was there more to it than that? I don't want to infringe on anyone's "trade secrets" but I'd be interested to know how it was done....particularly after all of the other failed attempts.

sthomp · 11-09-2013, 07:45 PM

kubel...I didn't ask for all the details when I picked up the parts as I was so happy with the result. Based on what the owner told me when I took them in (he wasn't there when I picked up), I know they used Methylene Chloride (DCM or di chloro methane). Since I had used a stripper bought from an auto supply house which had MC as the active agent, but at a concentration of 16% as I remember, and did see noticeable affect, but no knockout punch, I believe they used a much stronger concentration and perhaps some very light buffing. There was no sign that the MC had any affect on the metal...very good thing, so time in solution I don't think would be critical. The problem for us types is obtaining and safely using a stronger solution. Given that this cost me $42 and I had already spent north of $100 on my failed attempts...no brainer, don't even think about it!
Parts shipped today for rebluing and strawing. Steve

John Sabato · 12-26-2013, 06:15 PM

Pretty is an understatement! Nicely done!

lugerholsterrepair · 12-26-2013, 10:14 PM

Steve..Nicely done my Friend! It looks like for the date stamps on your posts it took Herr Danner approx. a month and a half! Now that's service!

I have to think you did the right thing with the British stamps.

Thanks very much for the saga as it was..Always nice to see a job well done. Now a really beautiful Luger.

CAP Black · 12-26-2013, 10:23 PM

Talk about Santa coming to town. Wow!

10-28-2013, 01:19 PM	#1
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,098 Posts	The judicious use of a mini butane pencil torch (of the type that is used for browning the top of Creme' Brulee dessert) that is kept moving to affect ONLY the paint and not greatly affect the temperature of the frame should burn the paint crispy so you can brass wire brush it off. I can not overemphasize that you can't hold the torch steady in one spot too long. You must keep it moving. This small size torch miminizes the chance that you will damage the frame. ( see the example from an ebay auction) If you have ever stripped paint off of wood with a torch that is the technique you need to emulate. Hold it in one place only long enough to burn the paint and then brass brush or scrape it and move on. Once the paint is burnt to ash, it will be easy to brass brush off. You don't want to burn the "wood" only the paint. Try something simple like the lanyard loop first... This technique will work, but it will be slow. Good luck, and take lots of photos of your progress and post them here. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-01-2013, 07:55 AM	#4
Patronen User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 312 Thanks: 335 Thanked 93 Times in 70 Posts	sthomp, I have a lead for you. Look up Suncorite 259 Enamel, just put it in a search engine on the computer. This may be what was applied to your luger. __________________ Dave

11-01-2013, 09:44 AM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,098 Posts	To try the brake fluid, if you don't have any on hand, you can get a smaller bottle (or two) 8 oz. size of DOT 3 at most Dollar Tree stores where everything is only a $1.00... and yes, don't spill it on any painted surfaces that you don't intend to strip. DAMHIK. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-01-2013, 08:40 PM	#10
Patronen User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 312 Thanks: 335 Thanked 93 Times in 70 Posts	http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2653 Here is a thread from another forum about suncorite removal. __________________ Dave

11-03-2013, 07:14 PM	#13
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,400 Thanks: 7,556 Thanked 2,643 Times in 1,393 Posts	Hey Mark, as Yogi Berra said, "It ain't over until it's over". The jury is still out; let's see what results from the full-strength bath in methylene chloride. If it does need blasting, I think it could be rust blued again if the surface were sanded and trued after the nooks and crannies are cleaned out. Though the evidence of any such treatment will always exist, it would probably satisfy my OCD! __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

10-30-2013, 11:01 PM	#2
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	A putty knife will help get things started once the paint has softened. dju

10-31-2013, 10:34 PM	#3
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Wonder if soda-blasting would touch the stuff? Also, I'm still betting that th guys at the chrome plating shop could get it off without weakening the metal, just have to show it to them and express your parameters. dju

11-01-2013, 09:07 AM	#5
Olle User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,149 Thanks: 159 Thanked 664 Times in 318 Posts	One last thing to try: Brake fluid. I have used it with great success, especially on plastic parts that would melt if you used harsher chemicals. This is what plastic model builders use to remove a botched paint job, and it seems to strip most types of paint. Go with the cheapest DOT3 you can find, the higher grades won't work. I can't guarantee the result, but a 32 oz bottle will only set you back $6-$7 so it's worth a try.

11-01-2013, 04:38 PM	#7
sthomp User Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 50 Thanks: 2 Thanked 26 Times in 12 Posts	OK, I GIVE UP! I checked local metal plating and metal stripping businesses around Phoenix and after talking to half a dozen or so, picked one and took all the parts to them...now I won't be able to sleep for a week until I get them back. The old guy there knew exactly what to do, although he couldn't name the black finish on the parts. Rhuff, guess what he is going to use...Methaline Chloride, the active ingredient in Klean-Strip...but a much higher concentration...And the cost, you might ask...why yes sir...$42 includuding hazardous waste disposal!...half of what I've already spent. Now let's not jump for joy until I have them back. Pictures and comments will be forthcoming in a week to 10 days. BTW, Patronen, I did a search on Suncorite 259 and it sounds EXACTLY like the stuff on my Luger. If I could have found someone to do soda blasting I would have tried it. The info I found on it and the comments from the local shops sounded encouraging. I don't have compressor and it does make quite a mess. But this shop was ready to go. So, once again, thanks to all who voiced their thoughts and suggestions and encouragement. Steve

11-01-2013, 09:24 PM	#11
sthomp User Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 50 Thanks: 2 Thanked 26 Times in 12 Posts	yes, the consensus seems to be that Methylene Chloride may be the only thing to hit this stuff. I think that is what GT and I were seeing using the Klean-Strip aerosol which uses a lower concentration of MC. I think the concentration/ percentage of MC in Klean-Strip was just not enough to efficiently get this stuff off quickly. I'm guessing that my shop will use a much more concentrated dose of the MC and get the job done. After the last posted pics from yesterday, I used some 400 grit paper and it did a good job on the flat surfaces, but impossible to get into the nooks and crannies and was not good for corners or in the stamps. I just don't see any other way to get this done than some chemical application...we'll see (and hope).

11-03-2013, 10:41 AM	#12
Vic103 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	After reading all the posts, and all the things you have tried, it sounds like you are gonna have to bead blast it, polish it, and have it salt blued. Then you will have a beautiful Luger. Because of my OCD this is the route I would take. Just my .02 cents. Good luck. It will be an awesome looking Luger.

11-09-2013, 04:13 PM	#15
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,314 Thanks: 2,746 Thanked 998 Times in 733 Posts	Really glad to hear that you were finally successful. It appears as though your restorer now has a good starting place to start making it pretty. I , like many others, frequently feel like I have to give things "a try", but if unsuccessful, then I have to turn to the folks that are really good at the job, and will do it correctly. I look forward to seeing the end product.

11-09-2013, 06:35 PM	#16
kubel User Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Ohio Posts: 124 Thanks: 5 Thanked 32 Times in 20 Posts	OK, so I guess the $64 question is, "How'd they do it?" Did they just leave it in a MC bath for a week, pulled it out and "Wah-Lah", all done? Or was there more to it than that? I don't want to infringe on anyone's "trade secrets" but I'd be interested to know how it was done....particularly after all of the other failed attempts.

11-09-2013, 07:45 PM	#17
sthomp User Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 50 Thanks: 2 Thanked 26 Times in 12 Posts	kubel...I didn't ask for all the details when I picked up the parts as I was so happy with the result. Based on what the owner told me when I took them in (he wasn't there when I picked up), I know they used Methylene Chloride (DCM or di chloro methane). Since I had used a stripper bought from an auto supply house which had MC as the active agent, but at a concentration of 16% as I remember, and did see noticeable affect, but no knockout punch, I believe they used a much stronger concentration and perhaps some very light buffing. There was no sign that the MC had any affect on the metal...very good thing, so time in solution I don't think would be critical. The problem for us types is obtaining and safely using a stronger solution. Given that this cost me $42 and I had already spent north of $100 on my failed attempts...no brainer, don't even think about it! Parts shipped today for rebluing and strawing. Steve

12-26-2013, 06:15 PM	#18
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,098 Posts	Pretty is an understatement! Nicely done! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-26-2013, 10:14 PM	#19
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,134 Times in 1,439 Posts	Steve..Nicely done my Friend! It looks like for the date stamps on your posts it took Herr Danner approx. a month and a half! Now that's service! I have to think you did the right thing with the British stamps. Thanks very much for the saga as it was..Always nice to see a job well done. Now a really beautiful Luger. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-26-2013, 10:23 PM	#20
CAP Black User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Fairmont, WV Right here in Mountaineer country and God's country Posts: 767 Thanks: 100 Thanked 174 Times in 96 Posts	Talk about Santa coming to town. Wow!

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