C96 value? - Page 2

chazbotic · 06-11-2013, 02:01 PM

i wonder when it was refinished then, as i understand it, it has never been refinished since the 1940's, and been held in storage since then. a friend, from his experiences with mostly colt revolvers, has mentioned that it doesn't appear to be rounded and stampings and edges are still "flat where flat and round where round", whatever that means. honestly i'm not much of an older firearm person, my personal arms are generally the more modern offerings, but i know quality when i see it.

thank you everyone. i think i'll tell the insurer $1500 and split the difference, unless that's too low. i find the pricing from simpsons ltd and others to be inconsistent.

chazbotic · 06-17-2013, 04:29 AM

it would be very helpful to determine if it has been reblued or not. little difference to me, but significant to the insurer.

also i have noted where i have seen partial or complete serial numbers: bolt, hammer, bolt stop, bolt lock, grips, slide, upper left chamber, floorplate, disconnector, sear

alvin · 06-18-2013, 08:01 PM

See, storing many guns @home could be a headache.

No gun dealers sell "gun certificate"? Say, a C96, a buyer pay $1200 for it, but instead of taking delivery of the physical gun, the buyer receives a owner certificate. So the buyer owns a "virtual gun". If buyer decides to take the delivery, the dealer will send to him adding shipping cost. But that's optional.

Finally, if collector wants, the collection is papers with the gun picture, s/n, etc printed on it, which can be easily carried and stored in a deposit box. Sounds crazy. But that's an advanced business model. Gun transaction is too primitive.

===

The sear (long part blocking the hammer) on this variation is not supposed to be numbered.

chazbotic · 06-23-2013, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

See, storing many guns @home could be a headache.

No gun dealers sell "gun certificate"? Say, a C96, a buyer pay $1200 for it, but instead of taking delivery of the physical gun, the buyer receives a owner certificate. So the buyer owns a "virtual gun". If buyer decides to take the delivery, the dealer will send to him adding shipping cost. But that's optional.

Finally, if collector wants, the collection is papers with the gun picture, s/n, etc printed on it, which can be easily carried and stored in a deposit box. Sounds crazy. But that's an advanced business model. Gun transaction is too primitive.

===

The sear (long part blocking the hammer) on this variation is not supposed to be numbered.

I may be incorrect about the sear then - it's a piece that fits between the locking lug in the slide and the top of the bit that fits in the frame. the front part of it is a knob that interacts with the hammer spring i believe.

alvin · 06-23-2013, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chazbotic

I may be incorrect about the sear then - it's a piece that fits between the locking lug in the slide and the top of the bit that fits in the frame. the front part of it is a knob that interacts with the hammer spring i believe.

The formal name for that component is "bolt lock", which plays a central role in C96 mechanism. It's numbered.

cirelaw · 06-23-2013, 09:01 AM

I wondered which gun is more accurate the Mauser or luger? ~~~ Eric

alanint · 06-23-2013, 09:08 AM

If we are talking practical accuracy versus inherent accuracy, I would say the following:

If both unstocked, I would have to say the Luger. C96's are muzzle heavy and the "broomhandle" grip is less than ergonomic. The bulk of the pistol sits above the balance point of the shooter's hand.

There is nothing like a Luger for natural pointability and ergonomics.

sheepherder · 06-23-2013, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

There is nothing like a Luger for natural pointability and ergonomics.

I would respectfully disagree, but if true, it is accidental. Georg Luger was short and stout and had stubby fingers. When he redesigned Hugo Borchardt's 1909 Borchardt, Borchardt had already put the mainspring in the grip. But he retained the 7.65 x 25 cartridge. The resulting grip was too 'fat' for Luger's stubby fingers, so he shortened the Borchardt cartridge to 7.65 x 21. It was still too 'fat', so Luger came up with the idea of 'tilting' the magazine, thereby giving it a thinner vertical dimension. The grip frame was 'tilted' (and lengthened) as well to accommodate it. There is some question if it was 'tilted' first or the cartridge shortened first, but the end result was the same.

The 1909 Borchardt seems to have disappeared...A shame, as it is an important link in the development of the Borchardt, and consequently the Luger...

cirelaw · 06-23-2013, 09:17 AM

Does the attached stock affect your opinion?

alanint · 06-23-2013, 09:35 AM

Accidental or not, I still think it is true.

Look at a target. Close your eyes and bring a Luger up and point at where you remember the target to be, then open your eyes.

It is unusual if your are not close to dead on as far as where you are pointing the pistol. Few pistols can replicate this natural point.

Eric, I think both pistols would be evenly matched with stocks, given similar barrel lengths, with perhaps a slight advantage to the broomy, given the better sight length.

sheepherder · 06-23-2013, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

Accidental or not, I still think it is true.

Look at a target. Close your eyes and bring a Luger up and point at where you remember the target to be, then open your eyes...

Exactly my point. The Luger will be pointing way too high. There are people who claim the M1911 is too 'fat' for their grip, I suspect that these are the same people who think the Luger 'instinctively' points 'on target'...

alvin · 06-23-2013, 10:45 AM

The accuracy is a myth. Be honest, it's hard to shoot C96 well without stock attached. But some people could do it well. Numerous memoirs recorded an old game: putting a small bawl on a unlucky guy's head, an operator shot the bawl off hand at "20-step" distance (don't try that yourself).

This type of story usually went in this context: say, one guy wanted to join a bandit group, bandit leader asking things like 'are you bold enough? standing in the yard, I will give you a test'..... the rest of story was described above.

Say, this guy was not scared. Next step was also challenging -- 'do you have an enemy? yes? here is a broomhandle, kill him and come back'. After this guy really killed someone, he could not drop any more. Tough environment, not easy.

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06-11-2013, 02:01 PM	#1
chazbotic User Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	i wonder when it was refinished then, as i understand it, it has never been refinished since the 1940's, and been held in storage since then. a friend, from his experiences with mostly colt revolvers, has mentioned that it doesn't appear to be rounded and stampings and edges are still "flat where flat and round where round", whatever that means. honestly i'm not much of an older firearm person, my personal arms are generally the more modern offerings, but i know quality when i see it. thank you everyone. i think i'll tell the insurer $1500 and split the difference, unless that's too low. i find the pricing from simpsons ltd and others to be inconsistent.

06-17-2013, 04:29 AM	#2
chazbotic User Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	it would be very helpful to determine if it has been reblued or not. little difference to me, but significant to the insurer. also i have noted where i have seen partial or complete serial numbers: bolt, hammer, bolt stop, bolt lock, grips, slide, upper left chamber, floorplate, disconnector, sear

06-18-2013, 08:01 PM	#3
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	See, storing many guns @home could be a headache. No gun dealers sell "gun certificate"? Say, a C96, a buyer pay $1200 for it, but instead of taking delivery of the physical gun, the buyer receives a owner certificate. So the buyer owns a "virtual gun". If buyer decides to take the delivery, the dealer will send to him adding shipping cost. But that's optional. Finally, if collector wants, the collection is papers with the gun picture, s/n, etc printed on it, which can be easily carried and stored in a deposit box. Sounds crazy. But that's an advanced business model. Gun transaction is too primitive. === The sear (long part blocking the hammer) on this variation is not supposed to be numbered.

06-23-2013, 09:01 AM	#6
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,138 Times in 2,176 Posts	I wondered which gun is more accurate the Mauser or luger? ~~~ Eric

06-23-2013, 09:08 AM	#7
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	If we are talking practical accuracy versus inherent accuracy, I would say the following: If both unstocked, I would have to say the Luger. C96's are muzzle heavy and the "broomhandle" grip is less than ergonomic. The bulk of the pistol sits above the balance point of the shooter's hand. There is nothing like a Luger for natural pointability and ergonomics.

06-23-2013, 09:17 AM	#9
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,138 Times in 2,176 Posts	Does the attached stock affect your opinion?

06-23-2013, 09:35 AM	#10
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Accidental or not, I still think it is true. Look at a target. Close your eyes and bring a Luger up and point at where you remember the target to be, then open your eyes. It is unusual if your are not close to dead on as far as where you are pointing the pistol. Few pistols can replicate this natural point. Eric, I think both pistols would be evenly matched with stocks, given similar barrel lengths, with perhaps a slight advantage to the broomy, given the better sight length.

06-23-2013, 10:45 AM	#12
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	The accuracy is a myth. Be honest, it's hard to shoot C96 well without stock attached. But some people could do it well. Numerous memoirs recorded an old game: putting a small bawl on a unlucky guy's head, an operator shot the bawl off hand at "20-step" distance (don't try that yourself). This type of story usually went in this context: say, one guy wanted to join a bandit group, bandit leader asking things like 'are you bold enough? standing in the yard, I will give you a test'..... the rest of story was described above. Say, this guy was not scared. Next step was also challenging -- 'do you have an enemy? yes? here is a broomhandle, kill him and come back'. After this guy really killed someone, he could not drop any more. Tough environment, not easy.