Power of P-08 ammo in the 1920's

[Norme]

Originally Posted by Sieger

Hi:

Somewhere, I remember reading the actual distance the Lugers were sighted for. I believe it was 25 meters.

Can anyone verify this?

Thanks!!


Sieger

Hi Sieger, P08's were originally sighted for 100 meters and had a front sight blade 5.0mm tall. In 1914 this was changed to 50 meters by fitting a blade 5.5mm tall. Most of the earlier guns were retrofitted with the taller blade at the same time as they had hold-opens added. Regards, Norm

[CavScoutEurope]

Good thing I saw this!! The only white box I saw at Wal-Mart was the NATO ammo, Now I have to go back and buy the correct ammo! I wonder if it makes a difference if the Luger was used by the VOPO? Did the East Germans make any changes to allow for "hotter" rounds? I know that my firing pin was replaced by them....

[Vlim]

Lugers were initially sighted in at 50 meters, during the last production years that changed to 25.

[SIGP2101]

Prior and during WWII nitrocellulose powders were used on all sides. This particular two component gun powder by today's standards would be considered slow to medium burning rate powder. (remember the flash at the muzzle)
Today's modern powders are fast and too snappy for Lugers. This is where most of the problems with P08 originate. Weak springs and out of shape other parts of P08's contribute even more to incorrect functioning of the Lugers. If you reload start with proper burning rate powder. Then trouble shoot other components of the device. Using famous white W box 9mm is not way to go with P08's. 124 grains jacketed and slow to medium BR is proper way.
Tweaking a Luger to the off the shelf ammo of choice may be doable but something will give.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by SIGP2101

Prior and during WWII nitrocellulose powders were used on all sides. This particular two component gun powder by today's standards would be considered slow to medium burning rate powder. (remember the flash at the muzzle)
Today's modern powders are fast and too snappy for Lugers. This is where most of the problems with P08 originate. Weak springs and out of shape other parts of P08's contribute even more to incorrect functioning of the Lugers. If you reload start with proper burning rate powder. Then trouble shoot other components of the device. Using famous white W box 9mm is not way to go with P08's. 124 grains jacketed and slow to medium BR is proper way.
Tweaking a Luger to the off the shelf ammo of choice may be doable but something will give.

Hi:

Though some may consider us insane, I agree with your statement above completely!!

Here are some excellent powders I've used to create some outstanding handloads.

FMJ Loads: SR 4756 and Power Pistol

Lead Loads Accurate #5

All are with 115 to 125 grain bullets.


Sieger

[jdickson397]

Originally Posted by Sieger

Hi:

Though some may consider us insane, I agree with your statement above completely!!

Here are some excellent powders I've used to create some outstanding handloads.

FMJ Loads: SR 4756 and Power Pistol

Lead Loads Accurate #5

All are with 115 to 125 grain bullets.


Sieger

Sieger, what slow to medium burn rate powders do you recommend for 7.65mm loads? Thanks.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by jdickson397

Sieger, what slow to medium burn rate powders do you recommend for 7.65mm loads? Thanks.

Hi:

The same.

Sieger

[SIGP2101]

Originally Posted by Sieger

Hi:

Though some may consider us insane, I agree with your statement above completely!!

Sieger

Good to know that I am not alone in this cruel world.

[Terry Tiell]

Man this place is full of great information! Thanks once again guys. I've been running the white box Walmart 9mm thru mine and so far so good with zero problems. Now I must add all my springs are brand new so that probly helps things to work smoothly.

as for the sighting in of the weapon the distance it was sighted changing from 50 to 25 meters would explain everything! I thought I was going crazy as my original "G" upper and barrel seemed dead on at the range but the replacement 1913 parts seemed to shoot high now I know I just need to aim a tad lower due to where it was sighted originally. Thanks everyone.

[jdickson397]

The Winchester target/range ammo being referred to in this thread is in a white box with the word "WInchester" in RED letters and "USA" printed in red letters inside a small circle surrounded by stars. It is 115 grain FMJ.

The NATO ammo is also in a white box with the word "NATO" printed in BLACK letters. It is 124 grain FMJ.

Hope this helps. For what it's worth my 124 grain reloads seem to match POA and POI better in my Brownig Hi-Power. Can't supply any feedback on my Luger as it is 7.65mm.

[Vlim]

1934-37 military specifications for the 9mm mention an 8 gram bullet, with a velocity of 320 meters/second.
Which is basically within the specification range of both Winchester white-box and S&B 124grain.

Mauser did extensive testing of .30 luger and 9mm rounds when looking for a suitable baseline testing product for their 1970s production. They didn't see much problems either. In fact, they complimented Winchester with the quality of their 9mm rounds and the consistency of its performance. They opted for using Norma 9mm rounds for testing, as they were consistent and a bit hotter than the other rounds (Geco, Winchester, Swiss army, Swedish army).

[SteveM]

Originally Posted by Vlim

Mauser did extensive testing of .30 luger and 9mm rounds when looking for a suitable baseline testing product for their 1970s production.

The Norma 30 cal always performed better for me in my Lugers than the Winchester or Remington. I've never had the pleasure of trying the 9mm.

[Lugerdoc]

IMHO the work NATO stamped on many boxes of ammo, just equates to 9x19mm or 9mm Parabellum, not the weight of the bullet or the power load. TH

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by Lugerdoc

IMHO the work NATO stamped on many boxes of ammo, just equates to 9x19mm or 9mm Parabellum, not the weight of the bullet or the power load. TH

Tom:

Please name a few brands and types that are not the HOT NATO spec. rounds, as all on the current market that I know of are the hot stuff (121 grains at 1,260fps or so)

Sieger