Important Luger Auction Soon! - Page 2

alvin · 10-09-2008, 07:39 PM

A few guns did not sell. Now they are open for making offers. That 6-shot did not sell either. It's supposed to be a reworked gun.

Edward Tinker · 10-09-2008, 08:08 PM

I heard a lot of guns did not sell, but I have not seen the results...

tracyp · 10-09-2008, 09:31 PM

Right now, cash is king. It's looking a little scary.

Vlim · 10-10-2008, 08:03 AM

Getting back on the 'George Loewe' link.
I've seen a lot of DWM and Loewe related documentation and never saw that name pop up.

Any info about verifiable sources that mention 'George Loewe' and his links with the Loewe/DWM company?

Borchardt was never CEO of DWM, by the way. Just an engineer employed by them. His main focus was the 'ball bearing' part of the company.

Ah, I found the text referenced to and I can see where the mix-up originated from. The CLAIMS RESOLUTION TRIBUNAL, re Holocaust Victim Assets Litigation Case No. CV96-4849, mentions a George Loewe being the son of Ludwig Loewe. The description, when read incorrectly, suggests that Georg Loewe took over, but in fact, it was Isidor.

Ludwig Loewe founded the Loewe company, but his brother Isidor took over when Ludwig died in 1886. Isidor Loewe and his second in command, Eduard Barthelmes led the company from that moment on. Barthelmes was responsible for the technical management of the company and daughter companies. The tooling business became the responsibility of Julius Pajeken in 1888. Barthelmes remained responsible for the weapons production part.

Pajeken died in 1902 and his successor was Dr. Jur. Walther Waldschmidt. So from 1902 onwards, Waldschmidt was responsible for the arms branch in general. DWM sales documentation from 1904 shows the names of Alexis Riese and Max Kosegarten. It is thought that Riese was responsible for daily management of DWM and that Kosegarten was responsible for the commercial part.

Isidor Loewe died in 1910.

Members of the board of Loewe from 1893 until 1929:
Isidor Loewe, 1893 - 1910
Theodor Koehn, 1893 - 1897
Alexis Riese, 1895 - 1897 (went to DWM)
Julius Pajeken, 1897 - 1902
Wilhelm Laue, 1896 - 1899
Walther Waldschmidt, 1904 - 1924
Oskar Oliven, 1904 - 1906 and 1910 - 1929 (he was a son in law of Isidor and took over Isidor's seat after Isidor died in 1910).
Ernst Huhn, 1922 - 1926
Erich Loewe, 1925 - 1929
Heinrich Moering, 1926 - 1929

Again no mention of Georg or George Loewe anywhere in the company histories (the earliest one I have access to was published in 1929).

It's safe to say that the 'GL' hallmark was not that of Georg(e) Loewe and that Georg(e) Loewe played no important role in the companies of Ludw. Loewe & Cie. and DWM.

There is no more doubt in my mind that a 'Georg(e) Loewe' existed in the old days, but it's also relatively clear that the offspring of Ludwig Loewe played no important role in the company that bears his name.

Paul von Gontard entered the advisory board of Loewe in 1911, this most probably correlates to the time he entered the management of DWM.

So in short:
Loewe:
Ludwig Loewe, founder and CEO until 1886.
Isidor Loewe, CEO from 1886 until 1910.
Oskar Oliven, CEO from 1910 until 1929.

DWM/BKIW:
Alexis Riese, CEO from 1897 until 1911.
Paul von Gontard, CEO from 1897 until 1928.
Gunther Quandt, CEO from 1928 until his death in 1954.
Harald Quandt, CEO from 1954 until his death in 1967.

I would love to see a copy of the Stoeger documentation mentioned by Albert.

10-09-2008, 08:08 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,609 Times in 2,123 Posts	I heard a lot of guns did not sell, but I have not seen the results... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

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10-09-2008, 07:39 PM	#1
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	A few guns did not sell. Now they are open for making offers. That 6-shot did not sell either. It's supposed to be a reworked gun.

10-09-2008, 09:31 PM	#3
tracyp User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 391 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Right now, cash is king. It's looking a little scary.

10-10-2008, 08:03 AM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,991 Times in 1,205 Posts	Getting back on the 'George Loewe' link. I've seen a lot of DWM and Loewe related documentation and never saw that name pop up. Any info about verifiable sources that mention 'George Loewe' and his links with the Loewe/DWM company? Borchardt was never CEO of DWM, by the way. Just an engineer employed by them. His main focus was the 'ball bearing' part of the company. Ah, I found the text referenced to and I can see where the mix-up originated from. The CLAIMS RESOLUTION TRIBUNAL, re Holocaust Victim Assets Litigation Case No. CV96-4849, mentions a George Loewe being the son of Ludwig Loewe. The description, when read incorrectly, suggests that Georg Loewe took over, but in fact, it was Isidor. Ludwig Loewe founded the Loewe company, but his brother Isidor took over when Ludwig died in 1886. Isidor Loewe and his second in command, Eduard Barthelmes led the company from that moment on. Barthelmes was responsible for the technical management of the company and daughter companies. The tooling business became the responsibility of Julius Pajeken in 1888. Barthelmes remained responsible for the weapons production part. Pajeken died in 1902 and his successor was Dr. Jur. Walther Waldschmidt. So from 1902 onwards, Waldschmidt was responsible for the arms branch in general. DWM sales documentation from 1904 shows the names of Alexis Riese and Max Kosegarten. It is thought that Riese was responsible for daily management of DWM and that Kosegarten was responsible for the commercial part. Isidor Loewe died in 1910. Members of the board of Loewe from 1893 until 1929: Isidor Loewe, 1893 - 1910 Theodor Koehn, 1893 - 1897 Alexis Riese, 1895 - 1897 (went to DWM) Julius Pajeken, 1897 - 1902 Wilhelm Laue, 1896 - 1899 Walther Waldschmidt, 1904 - 1924 Oskar Oliven, 1904 - 1906 and 1910 - 1929 (he was a son in law of Isidor and took over Isidor's seat after Isidor died in 1910). Ernst Huhn, 1922 - 1926 Erich Loewe, 1925 - 1929 Heinrich Moering, 1926 - 1929 Again no mention of Georg or George Loewe anywhere in the company histories (the earliest one I have access to was published in 1929). It's safe to say that the 'GL' hallmark was not that of Georg(e) Loewe and that Georg(e) Loewe played no important role in the companies of Ludw. Loewe & Cie. and DWM. There is no more doubt in my mind that a 'Georg(e) Loewe' existed in the old days, but it's also relatively clear that the offspring of Ludwig Loewe played no important role in the company that bears his name. Paul von Gontard entered the advisory board of Loewe in 1911, this most probably correlates to the time he entered the management of DWM. So in short: Loewe: Ludwig Loewe, founder and CEO until 1886. Isidor Loewe, CEO from 1886 until 1910. Oskar Oliven, CEO from 1910 until 1929. DWM/BKIW: Alexis Riese, CEO from 1897 until 1911. Paul von Gontard, CEO from 1897 until 1928. Gunther Quandt, CEO from 1928 until his death in 1954. Harald Quandt, CEO from 1954 until his death in 1967. I would love to see a copy of the Stoeger documentation mentioned by Albert.