Military and Police HSc's

MarkC · 05-17-2004, 07:30 PM

Guys,

I have completed my collection of these heers and police pistols. Hope you enjoy the photo's, here is the link.

The KM marked pistols are very hard to find, however I am on target for a low grip screw variation...... The seller is almost ready to part with his prize.

http://www.p38guns.com/HSc.htm

Mark

Navy · 05-17-2004, 10:24 PM

Hello Mark C,

Thank you for a great presentation. I have long felt that the HSc was the "red headed step-child" and did not get the respect it deserved.

It was, infact, a *very popular* weapon for aircrew and armored vehicle crewmen.

Keep up the great work.

Tom A.

Ron Wood · 05-17-2004, 11:25 PM

Now that's what I call a real collection. Beautiful examples that carry out a complete theme. Clear evidence of researching the variations and expending a ton of effort to pull it all together. Hats off to you amigo.

John Sabato · 05-18-2004, 10:40 AM

MarkC,

Thanks for sharing your fine collection with us.

I don't own one of these guns because I never found one I could afford... but I have a question that maybe you could answer...

How much of the design of the HSc was used in the production of the commercial HK4 pistol produced in the 1970's and '80's. Were they close cousins?

MarkC · 05-18-2004, 02:23 PM

John,

The HK 4 and HSc are very similar in design but not the same. I have an HK 4 and actually never thought to do a side by side comparison, now I have a project for tonight!

The big design change was the interchangability of calibers with the HK. The slide has a firing pin that by turning a screw will go from center fire to rim fire so the .22LR cartridge can be used.

The HK 4 was the first semi auto pistol introduced by HK into the US and works in 4 calibers, .22LR, .25, .32ACP and .380.

It is a clever design and may have been more popular in places that have limits on how many guns you can own since it is essentially 4 in 1. However, it is not that reliable in .22 as my gun has many misfires.

In my opinion the HK P7 K3 is a much better pistol. It has the same squeeze cocking mechanism as the P7 but uses an oil filled buffer and does not have the gas port that makes the P7 heat up. Also, the .22 kit has a seperate slide and functions flawlessly. This gun has 3 conversions in .22LR, .32ACP and .380. It is my favorite HK pistol!

Mark

Aaron · 05-18-2004, 09:17 PM

Your data indicates that the First Variation consists of 3000 pistols bearing the E/655 and army test proof markings. You state that these examples occur between serial numbers 701348-710208. However, the highest numbered example reported is actually 715680. I myself own serial number 715077 bearing the large E/655 and the army test proof on the left tang.

Lugerdoc · 05-19-2004, 09:59 AM

John S. et al, I understand that Heckler & Koch were designers at Mauser during WW2, so probably had quite a few years to consider how to make the HSc into a commerically viable pistol with interchangeable calibers, ie the HK4. TH

MarkC · 05-19-2004, 10:50 AM

Aaron,

My data was sourced from "Axis Pistols" and there may have been some new developments since the printing of that publication which is now several years old. Thanks for the update.

Mark

Aaron · 05-19-2004, 04:23 PM

Jan Still admits that the information on early HSc pistols contained in his book "Axis Pistols" is now updated. There has been some very interesting up to date information in an HSc thread on Jan's website. I'm sure you will find it quite interesting if you go to

http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1218

MarkC · 05-19-2004, 05:00 PM

Aaron,

Thanks for the link, as a side note, I just acquired a no serial number/no proof or acceptance stamp HSc with the 3 lines on the slide, I'll post some pictures when I get a chance.

Do any of you know about this variation? I think it must be a post war factory build up.

Mark

05-17-2004, 07:30 PM	#1
MarkC User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 482 Thanks: 1 Thanked 126 Times in 29 Posts	Military and Police HSc's Guys, I have completed my collection of these heers and police pistols. Hope you enjoy the photo's, here is the link. The KM marked pistols are very hard to find, however I am on target for a low grip screw variation...... The seller is almost ready to part with his prize. http://www.p38guns.com/HSc.htm Mark

05-17-2004, 11:25 PM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Now that's what I call a real collection. Beautiful examples that carry out a complete theme. Clear evidence of researching the variations and expending a ton of effort to pull it all together. Hats off to you amigo. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

05-18-2004, 10:40 AM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	MarkC, Thanks for sharing your fine collection with us. I don't own one of these guns because I never found one I could afford... but I have a question that maybe you could answer... How much of the design of the HSc was used in the production of the commercial HK4 pistol produced in the 1970's and '80's. Were they close cousins? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-19-2004, 09:59 AM	#7
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	John S. et al, I understand that Heckler & Koch were designers at Mauser during WW2, so probably had quite a few years to consider how to make the HSc into a commerically viable pistol with interchangeable calibers, ie the HK4. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

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05-17-2004, 10:24 PM	#2
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Hello Mark C, Thank you for a great presentation. I have long felt that the HSc was the "red headed step-child" and did not get the respect it deserved. It was, infact, a very popular weapon for aircrew and armored vehicle crewmen. Keep up the great work. Tom A.

05-18-2004, 02:23 PM	#5
MarkC User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 482 Thanks: 1 Thanked 126 Times in 29 Posts	John, The HK 4 and HSc are very similar in design but not the same. I have an HK 4 and actually never thought to do a side by side comparison, now I have a project for tonight! The big design change was the interchangability of calibers with the HK. The slide has a firing pin that by turning a screw will go from center fire to rim fire so the .22LR cartridge can be used. The HK 4 was the first semi auto pistol introduced by HK into the US and works in 4 calibers, .22LR, .25, .32ACP and .380. It is a clever design and may have been more popular in places that have limits on how many guns you can own since it is essentially 4 in 1. However, it is not that reliable in .22 as my gun has many misfires. In my opinion the HK P7 K3 is a much better pistol. It has the same squeeze cocking mechanism as the P7 but uses an oil filled buffer and does not have the gas port that makes the P7 heat up. Also, the .22 kit has a seperate slide and functions flawlessly. This gun has 3 conversions in .22LR, .32ACP and .380. It is my favorite HK pistol! Mark

05-18-2004, 09:17 PM	#6
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Your data indicates that the First Variation consists of 3000 pistols bearing the E/655 and army test proof markings. You state that these examples occur between serial numbers 701348-710208. However, the highest numbered example reported is actually 715680. I myself own serial number 715077 bearing the large E/655 and the army test proof on the left tang.

05-19-2004, 10:50 AM	#8
MarkC User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 482 Thanks: 1 Thanked 126 Times in 29 Posts	Aaron, My data was sourced from "Axis Pistols" and there may have been some new developments since the printing of that publication which is now several years old. Thanks for the update. Mark

05-19-2004, 04:23 PM	#9
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Jan Still admits that the information on early HSc pistols contained in his book "Axis Pistols" is now updated. There has been some very interesting up to date information in an HSc thread on Jan's website. I'm sure you will find it quite interesting if you go to http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1218

05-19-2004, 05:00 PM	#10
MarkC User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 482 Thanks: 1 Thanked 126 Times in 29 Posts	Aaron, Thanks for the link, as a side note, I just acquired a no serial number/no proof or acceptance stamp HSc with the 3 lines on the slide, I'll post some pictures when I get a chance. Do any of you know about this variation? I think it must be a post war factory build up. Mark