Perfect Luger ammo - Page 3

Lonnie Zimmerman · 10-23-2003, 04:41 PM

Sieger; you are right concerning oal. I have found that 1.150 oal length works the best even when using hollow points, which I shoot almost exclusivly. Do a Google search for doctersight and you will find the information. Glad to talk to some people who shoot. I also have a Broomhandle that I have fixed up for a scope(7.63x25) that shoots better than the Luger!
Lonnie

Sieger · 10-23-2003, 11:46 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Lonnie Zimmerman:
Sieger; you are right concerning oal. I have found that 1.150 oal length works the best even when using hollow points, which I shoot almost exclusivly.

Lonnie<hr /></blockquote>Lonnie:

Twenty years ago, I had a pretty nice "Red 9" C-96, complete with stock. For some reason, I had a problem with the trigger reset function on it so I traded it off (a good trade at least).

A good 7.63, powerfully loaded, must be a lot of fun to shoot, especially with that stock attached. The C-96 is one tough pistol, but I do like the magazine of the Luger better.

For round nosed bullets in your 9mm, try an OAL of 1.175 inches.

The Hornady 115 and 124 gr. hollow points should shoot quite reliably at 1.15 inches, as they follow the original pattern of the DWM truncated cones quite closely.

Sieger

Barry Briscoe · 10-25-2003, 01:24 AM

I stopped at the range today and chronographed a couple of rounds of Lapua VPT 58 in my Glock 17L.The temperature was close to 60 degrees F and my chronograph was 10 ft from my muzzle.

The velocity was 1223 and 1233 fps,so I don't think my recollection of 1275 fps was very far off if at all because the 1275 fps was in the heat of the day in the summer probally 90 degrees F or more and the chronograph screens a couple of feet from the muzzle.

I just checked a few rounds out of a couple of boxes of ammo for overall length and it varied from 1.159" to 1.1635".

A link for velocities from a 4" barrel concerning vest threat levels.

http://www.geocities.com/jimandpetalawrie/NIJ-TL.html

THREAT LEVEL II Barrel Length (inches) Velocity fps Velocity mps
.41 Mag. 210 Grain SP 4 1300 397
.44 Mag. 240 Grain SJSP 4 1180 360
.44 Mag. 240 Grain Lead 4 1200 366
.357 Mag. 125 Grain JHP 4 1450 442
.357 Mag. 110 Grain JHP 4 1550 473
.357 Mag. 158 Grain JSP 6 1395 425
.357 Mag. 158 Grain JSP-Hornady 6 1445 441
.357 Mag. 158 Grain Lead 8 3/8 1410 430
9MM 124 Grain FMJ 5 1175 358
9MM Lapua 123 Grain FMC 4 1200 366
9MM Norma 116 Grain FMJ 4 1150 351
9MM Geco 123 Grain GMC 4 1200 366
9MM Canadian 116 5 1250 381
9MM Israli 4 1200 366
9MM Cavim-FMJ 4 1110 339

Sieger · 10-25-2003, 05:28 PM

Friends:

I would like to examine and test fire some period 9 mm Parabellum cartridges, and put some questions I have about them to rest.

1) Does anyone have any pre 1940 German Army or German Commercial Parabellum cartridges they would like tested for construction and velocity.

2) If not, does anyone know of just where I could obtain the above for testing?

Sieger

Sieger · 10-25-2003, 09:03 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Barry Briscoe:
I stopped at the range today and chronographed a couple of rounds of Lapua VPT 58 in my Glock 17L.The temperature was close to 60 degrees F and my chronograph was 10 ft from my muzzle.

The velocity was 1223 and 1233 fps,so I don't think my recollection of 1275 fps was very far off if at all because the 1275 fps was in the heat of the day in the summer probally 90 degrees F or more and the chronograph screens a couple of feet from the muzzle.

I just checked a few rounds out of a couple of boxes of ammo for overall length and it varied from 1.159" to 1.1635".

<hr /></blockquote>Barry:

Your Finnish ammo clocks out like +P or even +P+ ammo with that 123gr bullet. OAL isn't even equal to standard American specs. I wonder just what this ammo's was loaded for: pistol, machine gun?

Sieger

Lonnie Zimmerman · 10-25-2003, 10:12 PM

Sieger; any chance you live close to Oregon? I have some VPT 44 that I would let you test.
Lonnie

Barry Briscoe · 10-26-2003, 02:02 AM

The ammo is in 25 round boxes sealed inside a lead coated tin of 2000 rounds in a wood crate. It may have been used in the Suomi submachine guns...I don't know.They used 20,36,50,and 71 round drums so I don't know if the 25 rounds per box is a clue to its use or not.

I took some photos of the box,ammo,and labels inside the wood crate in case someone can read Finnish if that helps any.

I didn't expect the range of OAL of rounds in a couple of boxes to vary .0045",maybe from different lots of ammo,but they were kind of slack on their quality control in that aspect.

Sieger · 10-26-2003, 02:03 AM

Barry:

Thanks for the info and photos!

We'll have to wait for a Finn to help us out with the language. I can handle German and even Dutch pretty well, but don't speak any Finnish.

Sieger

Sieger · 10-26-2003, 02:57 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Lonnie Zimmerman:
Sieger; any chance you live close to Oregon? I have some VPT 44 that I would let you test.
Lonnie<hr /></blockquote>Lonnie:

You are very kind. No, I live on the other side of the world. I live in NYC and shoot in Florida, but I'd surely like to get my hands on about 9 rounds of that ammo for my trip to Florida next month!

Sieger

10-23-2003, 04:41 PM	#41
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Sieger; you are right concerning oal. I have found that 1.150 oal length works the best even when using hollow points, which I shoot almost exclusivly. Do a Google search for doctersight and you will find the information. Glad to talk to some people who shoot. I also have a Broomhandle that I have fixed up for a scope(7.63x25) that shoots better than the Luger! Lonnie __________________ Lonnie Zimmerman

10-23-2003, 11:46 PM	#42
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,579 Thanks: 2,144 Thanked 402 Times in 251 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Lonnie Zimmerman: <strong>Sieger; you are right concerning oal. I have found that 1.150 oal length works the best even when using hollow points, which I shoot almost exclusivly. Lonnie</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Lonnie: Twenty years ago, I had a pretty nice "Red 9" C-96, complete with stock. For some reason, I had a problem with the trigger reset function on it so I traded it off (a good trade at least). A good 7.63, powerfully loaded, must be a lot of fun to shoot, especially with that stock attached. The C-96 is one tough pistol, but I do like the magazine of the Luger better. For round nosed bullets in your 9mm, try an OAL of 1.175 inches. The Hornady 115 and 124 gr. hollow points should shoot quite reliably at 1.15 inches, as they follow the original pattern of the DWM truncated cones quite closely. Sieger

10-25-2003, 09:03 PM	#45
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,579 Thanks: 2,144 Thanked 402 Times in 251 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Barry Briscoe: <strong>I stopped at the range today and chronographed a couple of rounds of Lapua VPT 58 in my Glock 17L.The temperature was close to 60 degrees F and my chronograph was 10 ft from my muzzle. The velocity was 1223 and 1233 fps,so I don't think my recollection of 1275 fps was very far off if at all because the 1275 fps was in the heat of the day in the summer probally 90 degrees F or more and the chronograph screens a couple of feet from the muzzle. I just checked a few rounds out of a couple of boxes of ammo for overall length and it varied from 1.159" to 1.1635". </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Barry: Your Finnish ammo clocks out like +P or even +P+ ammo with that 123gr bullet. OAL isn't even equal to standard American specs. I wonder just what this ammo's was loaded for: pistol, machine gun? Sieger

10-25-2003, 10:12 PM	#46
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Sieger; any chance you live close to Oregon? I have some VPT 44 that I would let you test. Lonnie __________________ Lonnie Zimmerman

10-26-2003, 02:57 AM	#49
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,579 Thanks: 2,144 Thanked 402 Times in 251 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Lonnie Zimmerman: <strong>Sieger; any chance you live close to Oregon? I have some VPT 44 that I would let you test. Lonnie</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Lonnie: You are very kind. No, I live on the other side of the world. I live in NYC and shoot in Florida, but I'd surely like to get my hands on about 9 rounds of that ammo for my trip to Florida next month! Sieger

10-25-2003, 01:24 AM	#43
Barry Briscoe User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I stopped at the range today and chronographed a couple of rounds of Lapua VPT 58 in my Glock 17L.The temperature was close to 60 degrees F and my chronograph was 10 ft from my muzzle. The velocity was 1223 and 1233 fps,so I don't think my recollection of 1275 fps was very far off if at all because the 1275 fps was in the heat of the day in the summer probally 90 degrees F or more and the chronograph screens a couple of feet from the muzzle. I just checked a few rounds out of a couple of boxes of ammo for overall length and it varied from 1.159" to 1.1635". A link for velocities from a 4" barrel concerning vest threat levels. http://www.geocities.com/jimandpetalawrie/NIJ-TL.html THREAT LEVEL II Barrel Length (inches) Velocity fps Velocity mps .41 Mag. 210 Grain SP 4 1300 397 .44 Mag. 240 Grain SJSP 4 1180 360 .44 Mag. 240 Grain Lead 4 1200 366 .357 Mag. 125 Grain JHP 4 1450 442 .357 Mag. 110 Grain JHP 4 1550 473 .357 Mag. 158 Grain JSP 6 1395 425 .357 Mag. 158 Grain JSP-Hornady 6 1445 441 .357 Mag. 158 Grain Lead 8 3/8 1410 430 9MM 124 Grain FMJ 5 1175 358 9MM Lapua 123 Grain FMC 4 1200 366 9MM Norma 116 Grain FMJ 4 1150 351 9MM Geco 123 Grain GMC 4 1200 366 9MM Canadian 116 5 1250 381 9MM Israli 4 1200 366 9MM Cavim-FMJ 4 1110 339

10-25-2003, 05:28 PM	#44
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,579 Thanks: 2,144 Thanked 402 Times in 251 Posts	Friends: I would like to examine and test fire some period 9 mm Parabellum cartridges, and put some questions I have about them to rest. 1) Does anyone have any pre 1940 German Army or German Commercial Parabellum cartridges they would like tested for construction and velocity. 2) If not, does anyone know of just where I could obtain the above for testing? Sieger

10-26-2003, 02:02 AM	#47
Barry Briscoe User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The ammo is in 25 round boxes sealed inside a lead coated tin of 2000 rounds in a wood crate. It may have been used in the Suomi submachine guns...I don't know.They used 20,36,50,and 71 round drums so I don't know if the 25 rounds per box is a clue to its use or not. I took some photos of the box,ammo,and labels inside the wood crate in case someone can read Finnish if that helps any. I didn't expect the range of OAL of rounds in a couple of boxes to vary .0045",maybe from different lots of ammo,but they were kind of slack on their quality control in that aspect.

10-26-2003, 02:03 AM	#48
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,579 Thanks: 2,144 Thanked 402 Times in 251 Posts	Barry: Thanks for the info and photos! We'll have to wait for a Finn to help us out with the language. I can handle German and even Dutch pretty well, but don't speak any Finnish. Sieger

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