Repro Holster Craftsperson...?

Pete Ebbink · 01-24-2003, 09:31 PM

Does anyone know of a craftsperson or firm that might make custom, repro holsters on order ?

I am interested in picking up a "repro" Dutch KNIL holster...since finding a real one may take some time (i.e. years...). I have no problem with markings that would identify it as a modern-day fabrication...

Drop me a line at pebbink@pacbell.net if you might know someone...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

wterrell · 01-24-2003, 09:42 PM

Pete,
Give these fellers a shout:
http://www.mcknightsleather.com

Navy · 01-24-2003, 11:11 PM

The best Luger leathercraftsman, bar none, is my former comrade in arms and fellow airborne infantryman, Jerry Burney, a member of this very forum. Jerry's work is FAR superior to the late, great, "Uncle Frank" De Mauro and is virtually indistinguishable from the original manufacturer.

Jerry is not cheap but the quality of his craftsmanship is unsurpassed, IMHO, and I have some experience in Luger leather.

I would expect that, if you can get Jerry interested, and if you can find a pattern or piece from which he can make the templates for cutting the hides, well, if and if and if...

Contact Jerry at Lugerholsterrepair on the forum.

Tom A.

lugerholsterrepair · 01-25-2003, 01:01 AM

Pete, Since Tom gave you a glowing introduction to my many and varied talents I thought I would take the time to discuss this interesting and dear to my heart subject. Thank you Tom, I do appreciate your trust and confidence. It means a lot to me coming from a person with such extensive knowledge of holsters such as yourself.

Pete, I trust you are speaking about the KNIL 2nd type of holster shown on page 380-381 of Mr. Benders book. This would be a project that would test the abilities of anyone on the planet. What is necessary to start such a thing, if one is serious about creating a museum quality piece, is an original holster. without this or some very specific drawings, it is possible to create a holster that looks the same but in reality will be but a shadow of an original. Even the worst repro company would want to start with an original holster to pattern. I seriously doubt if drawings of the KNIL holster are available. This is all just the tip of the iceburg so to speak. If one were to aquire an original from which to pattern a copy it would still remain a difficult task. To build this holster from scratch would take weeks of intensive careful time consuming labor. All of the metal parts and rivets must be handcrafted to specific dimensions and hand hammered on. There are several snap type closures that may never be properly replicated.The leather, while not form molded like the German holsters, would still need a form built to sustain it while it is being built. I'm not saying that the project could not be done but to do it right would be a monumental undertaking even for a skilled craftsman. To slop one together so that it simply looks like a Dutch KNIL is what a large repro company might do but to tell you the truth, you will never see a repro company build this holster. They could not sell enough of them to make it profitable.It is similar to the Baby Luger holster. Not enough people own one to justify it's production. I have made several German style holsters from scratch, Baby Luger,6" Imperial Navy,and an artillery and all were a labor of love. All were difficult to figure out and build the forms for and make the metal parts. I have spent days just on a few small pieces of a holster. I am sure a large shop could standardize production techniques and make what takes me weeks in a few hours. The Germans obviously did. You must realize that in America today there has been much craftsmanship and technique that is lost to us and might never be found again.The brilliant sheen and color of leather seen on some German Luger holsters comes to mind. It is always surprising to me to see what a determined craftsman can do given enough time and talent, like Viggo"s reproduction of an Ideal Holster Stock. Now that is impressive! But I would venture to say that the reproduction might cost more than an original. Just because it is much harder today to re-invent what was common at the turn of the century.Pete, your quest is a good one but there are many obstacles in your path! Jerry Burney

PS. I took a second and looked at the McKnight leather site recomended by Wes. I think Mr. McKnight's holsters are first rate and he even goes so far as to welcome custom orders. Folks, the difference between what Mr. McKnight does and producing a Dutch KNIL holster is night and day. The cowboy style holster is childishly simple compared to some of the complicated European designs. These use off the shelf metal hardware and I would lay even money that this shop does not have a yard of linen thread much less a spool. While some may condem me for a purist there is more to German turn of the century leather craftsmanship than meets the eye. It has taken me five years of study and the help of too many people to mention here to begin to understand a lot of what goes into the proper manufacture and repair of Luger holsters. This is not something just any leather shop can pick up on by looking at a photo in a book. I cannot begin to discribe the holsters that have come to me that the local shoe repairman got hold of.I would dearly love to hear what Mr. Mcknight would say about a custom order for a Dutch KNIL! Warm Regards to all...Jerry

Pete Ebbink · 01-25-2003, 10:47 AM

Hello Wes,

Thanks for the lead on the leather works place...

Hello Jerry,

Thanks for the time in explaining the process. I did hear how that was done with a US Trials holster (i.e. Rock Island Arsenal), where the owner had sent in an original for repairs, and the leather shop took it apart completely to make pattern templates. Did not hear if the owner agreed to that, or not...

Sounds like my quest for a repro Dutch holster will almost be as difficult as a search for an original one; so maybe its logical to stay with the 2nd. quest endeavor...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

lugerholsterrepair · 01-25-2003, 12:09 PM

Pete, In reality you would be much better off in continuing to look for an original. You would be much more likely to end up with one in your lifetime. I assume you have entered requests for this from all the main sources? Sometimes shouting from the rooftops produces the desired results. I have not been so lucky myself in looking for a type 1 Imperial Navy holster. Ed Tinker just Emailed me that he is traveling to the Netherlands soon and is searching for whatever holsters might be available there. You might touch base with him and see what he could come up with. It is my opinion that Dutch accoutrements for the Luger pistol are far and few between. I first started out my holster repair business making Luger lanyards and I had to make the Dutch one from a photograph as I have as yet to discover a collector who has one in his collection anywhere in the World. I will keep an eye out for a KNIL and if ever one comes my way I will give you a heads up Pete. Jerry Burney

Thor · 01-25-2003, 02:47 PM

Like I have said before! Jerry Burney is a master craftsman of leather! Here is my custom ordered Baby Luger holster in buckskin color as requested by the Thorman! All as I specified!! BEAUTIFUL!!!

Pete Ebbink · 01-25-2003, 07:11 PM

Hello Ted,

My, my, my,...what a great "baby" rig...I am jealous.

Hello Again, Jerry,

I have made some dealer contacts in Holland and I have relatives in Holland as well. We also have an adopted daughter living between Italy and Denmark year round.

All do have my shopping list and are visiting gun shops for me...

p.s. Jerry, please check your Private Message box...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Navy · 01-25-2003, 08:27 PM

All,

I sold a Vickers Dutch Rig to Ralph 2 years ago. If you feel you have a marker, you may wish to contact him. FWIW, I paid $800 for the holster in 1999.

Tom A.

Navy · 01-25-2003, 08:31 PM

Jerry,

I have an "extra" type 1 navy holster...wanna talk?

Tom A.

lugerholsterrepair · 01-25-2003, 10:03 PM

Tom, Yes I do. Please Email me with your preference of communication. I will be happy to call at your convenience, just let me know the number where you are or I am content with Email..

Jerry Burney
13320 45th Lane
Yuma AZ 85367

928 342 7583

lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net

lugerholsterrepair@yahoo.com

01-24-2003, 09:31 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Repro Holster Craftsperson...? Does anyone know of a craftsperson or firm that might make custom, repro holsters on order ? I am interested in picking up a "repro" Dutch KNIL holster...since finding a real one may take some time (i.e. years...). I have no problem with markings that would identify it as a modern-day fabrication... Drop me a line at pebbink@pacbell.net if you might know someone... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

01-24-2003, 09:42 PM	#2
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Pete, Give these fellers a shout: http://www.mcknightsleather.com __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

01-25-2003, 01:01 AM	#4
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Pete, Since Tom gave you a glowing introduction to my many and varied talents I thought I would take the time to discuss this interesting and dear to my heart subject. Thank you Tom, I do appreciate your trust and confidence. It means a lot to me coming from a person with such extensive knowledge of holsters such as yourself. Pete, I trust you are speaking about the KNIL 2nd type of holster shown on page 380-381 of Mr. Benders book. This would be a project that would test the abilities of anyone on the planet. What is necessary to start such a thing, if one is serious about creating a museum quality piece, is an original holster. without this or some very specific drawings, it is possible to create a holster that looks the same but in reality will be but a shadow of an original. Even the worst repro company would want to start with an original holster to pattern. I seriously doubt if drawings of the KNIL holster are available. This is all just the tip of the iceburg so to speak. If one were to aquire an original from which to pattern a copy it would still remain a difficult task. To build this holster from scratch would take weeks of intensive careful time consuming labor. All of the metal parts and rivets must be handcrafted to specific dimensions and hand hammered on. There are several snap type closures that may never be properly replicated.The leather, while not form molded like the German holsters, would still need a form built to sustain it while it is being built. I'm not saying that the project could not be done but to do it right would be a monumental undertaking even for a skilled craftsman. To slop one together so that it simply looks like a Dutch KNIL is what a large repro company might do but to tell you the truth, you will never see a repro company build this holster. They could not sell enough of them to make it profitable.It is similar to the Baby Luger holster. Not enough people own one to justify it's production. I have made several German style holsters from scratch, Baby Luger,6" Imperial Navy,and an artillery and all were a labor of love. All were difficult to figure out and build the forms for and make the metal parts. I have spent days just on a few small pieces of a holster. I am sure a large shop could standardize production techniques and make what takes me weeks in a few hours. The Germans obviously did. You must realize that in America today there has been much craftsmanship and technique that is lost to us and might never be found again.The brilliant sheen and color of leather seen on some German Luger holsters comes to mind. It is always surprising to me to see what a determined craftsman can do given enough time and talent, like Viggo"s reproduction of an Ideal Holster Stock. Now that is impressive! But I would venture to say that the reproduction might cost more than an original. Just because it is much harder today to re-invent what was common at the turn of the century.Pete, your quest is a good one but there are many obstacles in your path! Jerry Burney PS. I took a second and looked at the McKnight leather site recomended by Wes. I think Mr. McKnight's holsters are first rate and he even goes so far as to welcome custom orders. Folks, the difference between what Mr. McKnight does and producing a Dutch KNIL holster is night and day. The cowboy style holster is childishly simple compared to some of the complicated European designs. These use off the shelf metal hardware and I would lay even money that this shop does not have a yard of linen thread much less a spool. While some may condem me for a purist there is more to German turn of the century leather craftsmanship than meets the eye. It has taken me five years of study and the help of too many people to mention here to begin to understand a lot of what goes into the proper manufacture and repair of Luger holsters. This is not something just any leather shop can pick up on by looking at a photo in a book. I cannot begin to discribe the holsters that have come to me that the local shoe repairman got hold of.I would dearly love to hear what Mr. Mcknight would say about a custom order for a Dutch KNIL! Warm Regards to all...Jerry __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

01-25-2003, 12:09 PM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Pete, In reality you would be much better off in continuing to look for an original. You would be much more likely to end up with one in your lifetime. I assume you have entered requests for this from all the main sources? Sometimes shouting from the rooftops produces the desired results. I have not been so lucky myself in looking for a type 1 Imperial Navy holster. Ed Tinker just Emailed me that he is traveling to the Netherlands soon and is searching for whatever holsters might be available there. You might touch base with him and see what he could come up with. It is my opinion that Dutch accoutrements for the Luger pistol are far and few between. I first started out my holster repair business making Luger lanyards and I had to make the Dutch one from a photograph as I have as yet to discover a collector who has one in his collection anywhere in the World. I will keep an eye out for a KNIL and if ever one comes my way I will give you a heads up Pete. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

01-25-2003, 02:47 PM	#7
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Like I have said before! Jerry Burney is a master craftsman of leather! Here is my custom ordered Baby Luger holster in buckskin color as requested by the Thorman! All as I specified!! BEAUTIFUL!!! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

01-24-2003, 11:11 PM	#3
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	The best Luger leathercraftsman, bar none, is my former comrade in arms and fellow airborne infantryman, Jerry Burney, a member of this very forum. Jerry's work is FAR superior to the late, great, "Uncle Frank" De Mauro and is virtually indistinguishable from the original manufacturer. Jerry is not cheap but the quality of his craftsmanship is unsurpassed, IMHO, and I have some experience in Luger leather. I would expect that, if you can get Jerry interested, and if you can find a pattern or piece from which he can make the templates for cutting the hides, well, if and if and if... Contact Jerry at Lugerholsterrepair on the forum. Tom A.

01-25-2003, 10:47 AM	#5
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Wes, Thanks for the lead on the leather works place... Hello Jerry, Thanks for the time in explaining the process. I did hear how that was done with a US Trials holster (i.e. Rock Island Arsenal), where the owner had sent in an original for repairs, and the leather shop took it apart completely to make pattern templates. Did not hear if the owner agreed to that, or not... Sounds like my quest for a repro Dutch holster will almost be as difficult as a search for an original one; so maybe its logical to stay with the 2nd. quest endeavor... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

01-25-2003, 07:11 PM	#8
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Ted, My, my, my,...what a great "baby" rig...I am jealous. Hello Again, Jerry, I have made some dealer contacts in Holland and I have relatives in Holland as well. We also have an adopted daughter living between Italy and Denmark year round. All do have my shopping list and are visiting gun shops for me... p.s. Jerry, please check your Private Message box... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

01-25-2003, 08:27 PM	#9
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	All, I sold a Vickers Dutch Rig to Ralph 2 years ago. If you feel you have a marker, you may wish to contact him. FWIW, I paid $800 for the holster in 1999. Tom A.

01-25-2003, 08:31 PM	#10
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Jerry, I have an "extra" type 1 navy holster...wanna talk? Tom A.

01-25-2003, 10:03 PM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Tom, Yes I do. Please Email me with your preference of communication. I will be happy to call at your convenience, just let me know the number where you are or I am content with Email.. Jerry Burney 13320 45th Lane Yuma AZ 85367 928 342 7583 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net lugerholsterrepair@yahoo.com __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

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