No Shortage Of Bidders..

Pete Ebbink · 07-23-2003, 08:57 PM

...on a navy toggle...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=13965

Wonder why the auction is a private affair...??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Navy · 07-23-2003, 09:23 PM

Its a private affair because none of the bidders, most of whom I would guess are either Luger dealers or selling collectors.
They do not wish the "taint" of public recognition that they are buying a part that will be used in assembling a bogus gun. It's just that simple.

Tom A.

Edward Tinker · 07-23-2003, 09:30 PM

I think that by "hiding" the winner and others, that it gives a feeling of deception for later.

Ed

Navy · 07-23-2003, 09:55 PM

Ed,
You broke the code.
Tom A.

Doubs · 07-23-2003, 10:04 PM

Is it possible that ebay is now doing what one of the gun auction sites has been doing for awhile? The bidder's name is not revealed until the reserve is met or exceeded. I inquired about the reasoning for it and was told that too many "private" deals were being made after an item failed to reach the reserve and the seller was contacting the high bidder to see if a sale could be arranged, thus depriving the auction site of their percentage. By hiding the high bidder's ID until the reserve has been reached, the seller isn't being given the opportunity to bypass the auction site.

Ron Wood · 07-23-2003, 10:27 PM

You got it Doubs. It is the same sort of thinking that started the practice of not giving out the full serial number of a Luger for sale. Dealers, and others, were listing their guns with the full serial number and selling with an inspection period. Some slobs would buy the gun, take off parts that matched the last two digits of guns that they had that were mismatched, then send back the gun they had purchased with replaced parts. You don't have to be a victim too many times before you start taking measures to keep from getting shafted again.

Frank · 07-23-2003, 11:35 PM

Ron, that's the reason Simpson doesn't publish the full serial number on their Luger List. They got burned by the "slobs" too!

While I understand the philosophy, I don't understand the logic of stating the serial number as 12XX and then showing a photo with the serial number of 1234???? That just doesn't make ANY sense.

Edward Tinker · 07-24-2003, 01:32 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Doubs:
Is it possible that ebay is now doing what one of the gun auction sites has been doing for awhile? The bidder's name is not revealed until the reserve is met or exceeded. <hr /></blockquote>This hasn't changed on e-bay, it is an option the seller can choose, but e-pay doesn't require it yet.

I see this on auctions that make me wonder, "Adult" items and items such as this.

I wouldn't mind having a "fake" navy either, but I am inclined to beleive that most of these parts will be used for nefarious purposes and it ticks me off.

By buying items like this, we weaken our own collections.

Ed

Pete Ebbink · 07-24-2003, 10:05 AM

Hey Tom,

Slightly OT but still related :

When you have some spare time, how about putting a text-written list together of features you have seen in bogus '04, '06, and '14 Navies...?

For example; A '04 Navy should only have 90 degree checkering pattern on their toggle knobs (...I think...).

Just a mere text description would be great. If you place this in the Member's Gallery, others could then submit photos of such bogus features in the future...

This would really help folks "know better" and might allow them to skip a costly lesson-learned purchase...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Navy · 07-24-2003, 10:37 AM

Hi Pete,
I already have done something similar with some other Forum members, and that was to produce a guide on how a real Navy should look. Because it is a virtual roadmap for boosters and fakers, it has not been disseminated widely.
Tom A.

Pete Ebbink · 07-25-2003, 10:10 AM

Hello Tom,

I do understand you position, here...

Am glad to know that you are willing to help a novice buyer when they get the Navy-bug...

This guide might be a nice chapter in the upcoming Armstrong-Selzter book, but I see your reasoning for not doing so...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Big Norm · 08-05-2003, 02:00 AM

The only problem that I can see is in the Wiemar Era navies. These guns can be easily labeled as fakes. I have one that has a P-08 frame and a small cap rear hinge pin. I could explain it and show a prospective buyer, but it would sound like "Sales Talk".

On second thought, we don't even have to go to the Wiemar Era. The 1908 commercial navy Luger has a simular problem. These 1908's, even in the 51000 serial range, had both the long and the short frame.
Big Norm

07-23-2003, 08:57 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	No Shortage Of Bidders.. ...on a navy toggle... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=13965 Wonder why the auction is a private affair...??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

07-23-2003, 09:30 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	I think that by "hiding" the winner and others, that it gives a feeling of deception for later. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-23-2003, 10:27 PM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	You got it Doubs. It is the same sort of thinking that started the practice of not giving out the full serial number of a Luger for sale. Dealers, and others, were listing their guns with the full serial number and selling with an inspection period. Some slobs would buy the gun, take off parts that matched the last two digits of guns that they had that were mismatched, then send back the gun they had purchased with replaced parts. You don't have to be a victim too many times before you start taking measures to keep from getting shafted again. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-24-2003, 01:32 AM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Doubs: <strong>Is it possible that ebay is now doing what one of the gun auction sites has been doing for awhile? The bidder's name is not revealed until the reserve is met or exceeded. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">This hasn't changed on e-bay, it is an option the seller can choose, but e-pay doesn't require it yet. I see this on auctions that make me wonder, "Adult" items and items such as this. I wouldn't mind having a "fake" navy either, but I am inclined to beleive that most of these parts will be used for nefarious purposes and it ticks me off. By buying items like this, we weaken our own collections. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

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07-23-2003, 09:23 PM	#2
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Its a private affair because none of the bidders, most of whom I would guess are either Luger dealers or selling collectors. They do not wish the "taint" of public recognition that they are buying a part that will be used in assembling a bogus gun. It's just that simple. Tom A.

07-23-2003, 09:55 PM	#4
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Ed, You broke the code. Tom A.

07-23-2003, 10:04 PM	#5
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 819 Thanked 1,769 Times in 586 Posts	Is it possible that ebay is now doing what one of the gun auction sites has been doing for awhile? The bidder's name is not revealed until the reserve is met or exceeded. I inquired about the reasoning for it and was told that too many "private" deals were being made after an item failed to reach the reserve and the seller was contacting the high bidder to see if a sale could be arranged, thus depriving the auction site of their percentage. By hiding the high bidder's ID until the reserve has been reached, the seller isn't being given the opportunity to bypass the auction site.

07-23-2003, 11:35 PM	#7
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	Ron, that's the reason Simpson doesn't publish the full serial number on their Luger List. They got burned by the "slobs" too! While I understand the philosophy, I don't understand the logic of stating the serial number as 12XX and then showing a photo with the serial number of 1234???? That just doesn't make ANY sense.

07-24-2003, 10:05 AM	#9
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hey Tom, Slightly OT but still related : When you have some spare time, how about putting a text-written list together of features you have seen in bogus '04, '06, and '14 Navies...? For example; A '04 Navy should only have 90 degree checkering pattern on their toggle knobs (...I think...). Just a mere text description would be great. If you place this in the Member's Gallery, others could then submit photos of such bogus features in the future... This would really help folks "know better" and might allow them to skip a costly lesson-learned purchase... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

07-24-2003, 10:37 AM	#10
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Hi Pete, I already have done something similar with some other Forum members, and that was to produce a guide on how a real Navy should look. Because it is a virtual roadmap for boosters and fakers, it has not been disseminated widely. Tom A.

07-25-2003, 10:10 AM	#11
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Tom, I do understand you position, here... Am glad to know that you are willing to help a novice buyer when they get the Navy-bug... This guide might be a nice chapter in the upcoming Armstrong-Selzter book, but I see your reasoning for not doing so... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

08-05-2003, 02:00 AM	#12
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	The only problem that I can see is in the Wiemar Era navies. These guns can be easily labeled as fakes. I have one that has a P-08 frame and a small cap rear hinge pin. I could explain it and show a prospective buyer, but it would sound like "Sales Talk". On second thought, we don't even have to go to the Wiemar Era. The 1908 commercial navy Luger has a simular problem. These 1908's, even in the 51000 serial range, had both the long and the short frame. Big Norm