Possible First Luger

[LarryT]

Having been born in 1938, as a young boy during WWII I fell in love with Jeeps, 1911's and German Lugers. I have the Jeep, the 1911, and now its time to treat myself to a Luger. I am a total novice so would appreciate your helpful advice.

Today I found a Luger labeled as a 1920 DWM 7.65.
It has the following characteristics:

-Almost all bluing is gone except on the barrel which is pretty deep blue with small wear around muzzle.
-Bore is absolutely perfect
-Grips are perfect
-Has stock lug
-Serial Number 8623 with an M under it. All other parts I can see match with 23.
-Strawed trigger, takedown lever, safety
-Under safety lever is Gesichert I believe at highest level.
-Made in Germany export markings on right side of receiver.
-Internal parts not blued
-Crown N proof marks on barrel, side plate, and I think one other location. I think this means it is a military Luger.
-8623 S/N on barrel has Crown N over it and script M under it, same as front of frame.

Holster is as follows:
-Tan with no wear on outside
-tie down strap is broken right above buckle. buckle is still fastened.
-Front mag pocket has the second mag in it. Both of the mags have wood bottoms but no markings at all. They match each other perfectly.
-Loading tool is missing from holster
-Inside top of holster is F.M.G.A.9. marking
-Outside front has A.WERTH 1915 marking.
-One rear belt loop stitching has let go.

Cocking works smoothly, dry fired one time to check. good solid feel.

Gentleman wants $740 for both.

I would appreciate your comments as a new and eager-to-learn member.

[AGE]

Been there, kinda did that,

I was born in 1934 and I understand you. Got 1911s (many), had a Jeep (piece of junk, dumped it and got a Bronco), have 2 Colt SAAs, .45 & .44, (TV western fan in the 50s).

I finally bought a Luger after admiring them for 50 years but was unwilling to part with $$. Anyway, they are addicting, I now have 3 and always look at more. I am a shooter. Avoid .30s in my opinion if you shoot unless you plan to reload and then ammo is pretty fussy. A lot of us use Walmart bulk pack Winchester 9 mm ammo ($10.95 per 100) which works well.

I'm not a good reference on collector value since I prefer reblued to worn blue. Collectors disagree violently, but to each his own. I wouldn't pay $700 for a worn .30, just my 2 cents worth.

[LarryT]

Thanks for the comments, Al. I also want a shooter but I ran into this one today and I'm fighting my 'jump too fast' history. On the other hand, the price includes the holster so I could even send it to Thor and have it blued. It would shoot the collector value, if any, but it would sure make a beautiful Luger. Yes, I was wondering how difficult it is to get .30 ammo and I would rather have a 9mm. If I've waited this many years to buy a Luger, guess I can wait a little longer and learn more. I'm going after those online books by Gerard Henrotin mentioned in the Forum.
Thank you again for your "two cents."
Larry Turner

[Dwight Gruber]

Larry,

It is extremely difficult to assay a Luger without seeing it first-hand. Failing that, photographs can be crucial to the process. Your description is an observant one, and I believe carries good information.

The first question is, whay do you want a Luger, to collect and admire, or to shoot? You will find almost no commercially available ammunition in 7.65 (.30 cal.) Luger, and that will be expensive and too underpowered to operate the gun reliably.

The crown-over-N proof mark identifies the gun as a commercial weapon, as does the caliber. The 4-digit serial number with a letter suffix identifies the gun, in the parlance of collectors, as an Alphabet Commercial; the m suffix means this gun was made late 1923 or early 1924.

Alphabet Commercials are among the most common Lugers. This Luger's lack of blue reduces its value greatly. The damage to the holster reduces its value, as well.

The first question about your purpose is not an idle one, as it points a direction to search. On the basis of the Luger's exterior finish and the holster's condition as you describe them, I suspect that you can do better for $740.

--Dwight

[LarryT]

Dwight,
Thank you for your information about this Luger and also your much appreciated direct question. I want both...a shooter and a historical Luger(s) I can admire. So what I am learning is this: If the gun is a collector gun, I wouldn't be shooting it anyway and it could be a 7.65. But this rather common Luger with only 20% bluing isn't a collector gun of value anyway and neither is the holster. Nor would I want it as a shooter due to a lack of ammo availability/cost/energy.
I'll keep looking. And thank you again, Dwight

Larry

[Edward Tinker]

Larry, they both gave you excellent advice, but I'll beat the horse a bit... I think you can do better on price for a shooter / low range collector piece. You can figure $150 or so for a holster that is original, but with the two "slight" problems I imagine the price would go down a bit, so even then, they are asking at least $590 for the gun itself, and you see them for $450 - $500, although not as common as they used to be...

But I think the main issue is the caliber, I'd find one in 9mm, you could change the barrel on this one, but then you are talking another $100 to $150 for parts and labor...

So, your instinct of keep looking is a good one, although I understand the *desire* that arises on wanting a new gun, as many here do...

[LarryT]

Yes, thanks Edward. I dreamed about the damn thing all night last night. At my age, the desire for a Luger outweighs my thoughts of women. Probably a good thing. And much less expensive.
Kidding of course. I'll keep looking. For a good Luger, I mean.

Larry

[Frank]

Hi Larry!! I worry about your priorities!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

However, wouldn't it be nice to have a Luger that was made in the same year that you were born? They are out there!! Just a thought!

Happy Hunting (for a Luger, of course)

[LarryT]

Thanks, Frank. Will try to keep my priorities straight and keep looking for that Luger. I'm glad to hear you suggest a Luger made in 1938. I was thinking the same thing but kind of thought it would be too 'sentimental' to mention. But, yes, I will look for one and invite anyone in the Forum who has one or knows of one to write. I'm not in the $1500 or $2000 bracket yet. I did order "Luger Tips" and "The Luger Handbook" to start learning more about Lugers but goodness, just reading the posts on the Forum is an education. Seems to me that you guys are the experts. I am also going to download the books that John Sabato suggested on E-Books by Henrotin when I can figure how to do it. I tried it last night but with no luck figuring out how to pay for it online. Thanks again, Frank.
Larry

[AGE]

Larry,

I saw a pretty nice 1938 Luger last Saturday. I would guess blue at 80%, numbers matched, 9 mm, etc. Asking price was $700, but lower offers can be made. I didn't need that one (with 3 shooters, one restored by Thor), but I did drool over it. Keep looking, they are out there.

[LarryT]

Thanks,Al. Any chance you could give me the phone number or email contact for that 1938 Luger? I am also onto a 1938 shooter and I'm waiting to hear about it today. By the way, you mentioned having a .44 on Tuesday and I found a mint S&W 29-2 with 6 1/2" barrel, ported, recessed cylinder, pinned barrel,about 1976-77. I'm about to load some .44 specials so it won't knock me down when I try it out. Clint Eastwood, I'm not. I've also been drooling over Colt SAA .45's at local gun shop. Grew up on cowboy shows with my dad.

Larry

[Edward Tinker]

Larry, I have relatives in Spearfish, SD, and it is just beautiful there, so I imagine up north is a bit cooler . I like a big cartridge too, but enough to knock down a griz doesn't make sense when a nice slow moving 45 LC will work just fine!

[Ron Wood]

I collect Lugers, but I shoot SAA .45s for fun. Currently fitting a set of one piece stag grips to an AWA replica. Roy Rogers would be proud.

[LarryT]

Ed,
I read where using a S&W 29 .44 on a bear is OK but it is suggested that the front ramp sight be filed off so it doesn't hurt so much when a pissed off Griz shoves it up your a**. Weather here in North Dakota was 18 below early this AM. We're out washing our cars in that kind of weather.

Ron,
I miss the 25 cent double feature westerns with a cartoon between them. They were great shoot-em-ups. Funny, they never made me even THINK about taking my 22 target rifle to school and blowing away my classmates. I carried the rifle on the bus with me in Indianapolis. If a kid did that today the SWAT team would greet you at the school.

Larry

[AGE]

Larry,

Sorry, I didn't get any info. on the 1938 Luger. However, we have a big show here on the weekend of Feb. 15-16. I'll keep my eyes open.

I was looking for an AWA replica a couple of years ago when I found my .45 SAA. It was an Arizona Centennial in new condition (but no case) for $750. He also gave me a good trade on a .44-40 replica that I was tired of. Couldn't pass it up since it was genuine Colt--these comemoratives don't seem to bring the prices that the standard model does. Great gun and shoots well, but about 3-4" groups.

I reload most ammo except 9 mm. That isn't worth it.

I use 230 grain .45 ACP RN bullets in my .45 long Colt loads over 7.8 grains of unique powder, accurate and satisfying to shoot. I also load .44 special with unique, about 7.5 grains and 240 grain SWC bullets.

I load .44 magnum for my Ruger 4 5/8 Blackhawk using 21 grains of 2400 powder and 240 grain bullets. It shoots 1-2" groups at 25 yards and holes in the dirt backstop look like groundhog holes. Very powerful and undoubtedly contributed to my hearing problem, but also very satisfying to be able to control these loads. I think even a bear would notice it if he was hit with one of these.

[LarryT]

Al,

I just missed a 1938 S/42 DWM shooter at Ralph Shattuck's by one day. I'll keep looking. Thanks for the info on reloading. A friend of mine is just beginning to teach me how to reload. Started after I bought a Ruger 20 ga Red Label and took up pheasant hunting again.

Also, just a note. The sheriff just signed off my application for a C&R License but I notice World of Lugers only ship to FFL's. We have somewhat of a paucity of FFL folks for receiving weapons here.
Is the C&R license worthwhile?

I'll have to wait awhile before the Colt SAA comes home. Around here they're running around $1500.

Larry

[Lonnie Zimmerman]

Larry; I have bought several Pistols from Ralph Shattuck with my C&R lisence. I am sure he takes them.
Lonnie

[LarryT]

Thanks, Lonnie. I revisted Ralph's website and it does say a "federal license" is necessary. Well, that would include the Type 3 C&R so it was my error. Just learning. Will put my foot in my mouth many more times, I'm sure.
Larry

[AGE]

Larry,

I'm sorry the Ft. Myres show was a bust for Luger collectors today. There were many thousands of guns and maybe 800-1000 tables, but I only saw one Luger, a real poor 1914 DWM for $900. I guess the small show at the Shriners Temple is much better for collectors, especially Luger collectors. Most of the stuff for sale was the latest in polymer (plastic) guns, Kimbers, Springfields, etc. etc. like you read about in the magazines.

Again, I'll keep my eyes open if I make the next show at the Shriners place.