All Matching Lugers AGAIN-LONG

[Thor]

Just a reminder that when you buy an "all matching gun" that means different things to seller and buy. Make sure you insist on internal as well as external matching parts. By casual observation you might see all the serial marked parts are matched, but what about the hold open device and firing pin. It really is disappointing when you pull the firing pin and not only is it from another gun, but maybe a different WW Vintage. Look for parts that have generally the same size numbers and font type. REALLY large numbers are a dead give away that somebody is monkeying with the part. Also watch "matching mags" they really are rarer than the beginner collector would belive. Many have had the aluminum bottom CUT or ground to take the original number off. These have a tell tale flat spot on them and sometimes they even leave the grind marks. I also look for dirty numbers and letters on the mag bottoms, if those have been there over 60 years they will not appear fresh cut and shiny. Watch it......"it's a jungle out there". Marvin just passed on a nice Luger that "appeared to be all matching" He was smart enough to "look inside" ~Thor~

Thanks for the advice. It's just the kind of info this "beginner collector" appreciates. Ad (eagerly awaiting Toad's arrival from Ralph Shattuck).

[Marvin]

Ted is correct about the matching parts. I went Saturday morning to look at an all matching 97-98% 1941 Luger. When I got there the pistol was extremmly nice and was 97%+ condition, and I thought I had found a real peach. I asked if I could take the pistol apart and check and the seller said yes. As soon as I removed the cannon assembly I looked at the Toggle Pin and it was matching. So far so good! Then I looked at the Holdopen and the number was differrent! Uh Oh, a definite problem! I then removed the Firing Pin and it was adifferent number. I showed this to the seller and he said he was not aware about the mismatch. I don't know if he did or not, but anyway I did pass on this one even though it was a really pretty pistol. Anytime you look at a Luger, check everything and don't get "burned" on a bad deal.


Marvin

[Frank]

I had almost the identical problem with a 42 byf. All numbers matched except the hold open lever, damn and it was a nice one too!!! Be careful !! Also watch the magazines, as TEEDOOR mentioned, I bought one on ebay which was a close match to one of my Lugers. There was a definate flat spot and the numbers looked like the correct font, but the spacing was way off. Fortunately, I was able to return it for a refund. I was lucky in both cases. A word to the wise is sufficient ---- BE CAREFUL !!! Good post Ted & Marvin !!

[Steve Lempitski]

Be wary of the Dealer too! I had a fellow in Illinois try to sell me a WW1 gun with a matching clip - only the clip bottom was aluminum!

[Marvin]

This is a good post and we all need to be aware of the pitfalls in collecting Lugers. We need to buy books and read them to learn as much as possible to keep from falling into the Fakery trap.


Marvin

It is very very difficult in some areas of luger collecting to know if the parts are orig or not. I had an Erfurt that had two matching mags, one alum and one wood bottom with no suffix letters! AND they were correct period magazines! This was a 1920 marked pistol and 1917 dated that had been converted to police use in 1934 or so. Before that, in the 1920's it received two magazines during the wood/alum transition period of 1925-1929. I have also seen WW2 alum bottom mags that had numbers so oddly stamped the very wide spacing of the numbers looked wrong but the mag was original to the period and gun. Of course, very early wood magazines have huge s/n's stamped longitudinally. If you are really observant, you might just see an alum bottomed mag that has a big X stamped on it and a second s/n. Of course, it might not be a s/n but a Navy property number for the North Sea Fleet--that is why the huge X is there indicating a spare magazine.


Telling the diff b/w orig and monkey-made parts requires experience and research. The wood bott mags are especially difficult to validate but with time you can learn of some characteristics such as the 1 looking like a leaning 7 and other things that will help you distinguish orig German applied numerals from chimp-applied digits.


BTW, my nickname for counterfeiters is "chimps" because they monkey with the truth and tend to do poor jobs. Ethical restorers are, of course, not being referenced