Luger values

Stu · 11-22-2002, 08:34 AM

I thought I'd post this as some small comfort to those of us who never seem to find that complete artillery rig, in 98% condition, from somebodies aged relative, or garage sale for, $175 and a six pack [img]wink.gif[/img]

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...p?Item=6161986

To me, this isn't a really attractive pistol, with the russian x, forced matching and refinish but 8 people liked it, and to someone it was worth over $520.

I think values are still on the increase and as 'collector' grade guns spiral out of sight the demand and value for the next step down, mostly matching but refinished, or poorer finish guns, is going to steadily rise.

I've got to say I think the minimum value for a good condition mainly matching shooter is $450 on the open market ?

I'm also posting this to goad those in the know to supply me names and addresses of all those $175 arty's, just to prove me wrong <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />

Edward Tinker · 11-22-2002, 10:51 AM

Tis true to me also sir!

I was visitng our sister site www.p38forum.com and saw some comments. So, a WW2 P38 in the same shape as a Luger is about 1/2 of the Lugers "value"?

I see them go for around $500 (or less), while a Luger in same matching shape goes for $900 to $1100?

Am I wrong in this assumption?

Stu · 11-22-2002, 11:22 AM

Hi Edward. I also visit that board and have a couple of 38's tucked away. I think there's one very interesting piece of advice often given on that board though.

New enthusiasts looking for a representative shooter class gun are often directed to FGS who seem, somehow, to have a supply of refinished guns.

I, myself, bought one and was happy with the deal.

BUT, the FGS guns are dipped but matching with a very discreet import mark. They sell from $450 upwards depending on rarity. So on one hand the advice is that an unrefinshed shooter grade is worth $350 but on the other, paying $450 for a refinshed equivalent is a good deal !! (I believe that the FGS guns are a good deal from what I've seen locally). Something is worth exactly what the buyer will offer and the seller accept, nothing more, nothing less [img]wink.gif[/img]

Frank · 11-22-2002, 01:04 PM

Hello All,

I really think one has to be careful when you say "import stamped or marked". There are a bunch of "Russian", with or without the dreaded "X" and there are "German", most likely East German. These pistols have been refinished and some have been otherwise "buggered" up.

Then there are genuine "other" imports, that are import marked, but are unaltered pistols, mostly from Canada. Since their new laws on pistols having barrel lengths less than 105mm, there has been a few really nice pistols sent across the border and import marked. I, for one, place these imports in a totally different light than the recent European imports. Anyway my 2Ã?Â¢ worth.

<img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />

Edward Tinker · 11-22-2002, 01:35 PM

I too look at imports different than some. I think it is a continuation of their history, so I think an import mark might devalue, but not drastically devalue?

Frank, what about the ones imported years ago, in the 50's / 60's? They were marked by different companies...

Stu · 11-22-2002, 02:41 PM

Don't get me wrong; I've nothing against import pistols. I understand how it may affect the value of a "collector" grade gun, significantly to some, but in my realm it's not an issue.

I prefer the markings to be discrete, but what I'm looking at is the originality and condition of the weapon notwithstanding the actual surface finish. That's how I assess the value to me. Look what Thor can do with a pistol with good metalwork !

I've 2 import marked guns, (and a 3rd I'm pretty sure is a re-work). All are nice condition, matching, (with one exception of two minor parts), representative guns. In fact I'm glad they are what they are; if they hadn't been dipped I could never have afforded them ! I do believe that these kind of guns are both a good introduction for the novice and unlikely to devalue.

My mention of the one at the auction was to illustrate purely that a gun I find unattractive, (the general condition is pretty average at best), is fetching way more than the average estimate for a shooter.

I'd also agree with Edward; these things are part of the gun's history. I'd bet money that should the Russians or East Germans have issued their reworks for combat use, people would have a different attitude to them today [img]wink.gif[/img]

Frank · 11-22-2002, 03:16 PM

Hello Again,

There were a big bunch of WWI pistols that were marked "Germany" that nearly no one has any difficulty accepting. They were, in general, not messed with either.

The 60's and 70's type imports were of several categories, those that were plundered and those that were "clean". My first Luger was one of the "messed" with bunch. A real abortion, but excuse the advertisement, Thor turned this mess into an excellent shooter. I am proud to say it gets many WOW's at the range and is extremely accurate.

So again I say, the import mark is in the eye of the beholder!! Some are good, some acceptable and some not so good. Only the future will be able to decide the values!!!

Sorry, but again

<img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />

Edward Tinker · 11-22-2002, 03:42 PM

No soapbox to me, this is interestin' Friday reading!

(Better than working, thank goodness they don't have this website bookmarked [img]biggrin.gif[/img] )

Stu · 11-22-2002, 04:38 PM

Hi Frank. I completely agree with your perspective. The presence, or absence, of an import mark is only a tiny part of the equation to me.

You mention the 'Germany' marked guns. I believe this mark was used for commercial pistols, (some of which were re-works of military pistols ?), imported by the US representatives for resale. Do you know if this style of marking was also used at other times by other people ?

Johnny Peppers · 11-22-2002, 07:36 PM

Following WWI there were any number of dealers selling surplus Luger pistols. These pistols were also marked with the GERMANY import stamp which may be found stamped most anywhere on the pistol. These were not commercial pistols even though they were sold through commercial channels.

Stu · 11-23-2002, 11:39 AM

Hi Johnny, thanks for the clarification. That makes the markings on some guns I've seen comprehendable at last. The variety of markings confused me before !

Was there a big market in importing used commercial guns as well as ex military ?

11-22-2002, 08:34 AM	#1
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Luger values I thought I'd post this as some small comfort to those of us who never seem to find that complete artillery rig, in 98% condition, from somebodies aged relative, or garage sale for, $175 and a six pack [img]wink.gif[/img] http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...p?Item=6161986 To me, this isn't a really attractive pistol, with the russian x, forced matching and refinish but 8 people liked it, and to someone it was worth over $520. I think values are still on the increase and as 'collector' grade guns spiral out of sight the demand and value for the next step down, mostly matching but refinished, or poorer finish guns, is going to steadily rise. I've got to say I think the minimum value for a good condition mainly matching shooter is $450 on the open market ? I'm also posting this to goad those in the know to supply me names and addresses of all those $175 arty's, just to prove me wrong <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />

11-22-2002, 10:51 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Tis true to me also sir! I was visitng our sister site www.p38forum.com and saw some comments. So, a WW2 P38 in the same shape as a Luger is about 1/2 of the Lugers "value"? I see them go for around $500 (or less), while a Luger in same matching shape goes for $900 to $1100? Am I wrong in this assumption? __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-22-2002, 01:35 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	I too look at imports different than some. I think it is a continuation of their history, so I think an import mark might devalue, but not drastically devalue? Frank, what about the ones imported years ago, in the 50's / 60's? They were marked by different companies... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-22-2002, 03:42 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	No soapbox to me, this is interestin' Friday reading! (Better than working, thank goodness they don't have this website bookmarked [img]biggrin.gif[/img] ) __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

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11-22-2002, 11:22 AM	#3
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Hi Edward. I also visit that board and have a couple of 38's tucked away. I think there's one very interesting piece of advice often given on that board though. New enthusiasts looking for a representative shooter class gun are often directed to FGS who seem, somehow, to have a supply of refinished guns. I, myself, bought one and was happy with the deal. BUT, the FGS guns are dipped but matching with a very discreet import mark. They sell from $450 upwards depending on rarity. So on one hand the advice is that an unrefinshed shooter grade is worth $350 but on the other, paying $450 for a refinshed equivalent is a good deal !! (I believe that the FGS guns are a good deal from what I've seen locally). Something is worth exactly what the buyer will offer and the seller accept, nothing more, nothing less [img]wink.gif[/img]

11-22-2002, 01:04 PM	#4
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	Hello All, I really think one has to be careful when you say "import stamped or marked". There are a bunch of "Russian", with or without the dreaded "X" and there are "German", most likely East German. These pistols have been refinished and some have been otherwise "buggered" up. Then there are genuine "other" imports, that are import marked, but are unaltered pistols, mostly from Canada. Since their new laws on pistols having barrel lengths less than 105mm, there has been a few really nice pistols sent across the border and import marked. I, for one, place these imports in a totally different light than the recent European imports. Anyway my 2Ã?Â¢ worth. <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />

11-22-2002, 02:41 PM	#6
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Don't get me wrong; I've nothing against import pistols. I understand how it may affect the value of a "collector" grade gun, significantly to some, but in my realm it's not an issue. I prefer the markings to be discrete, but what I'm looking at is the originality and condition of the weapon notwithstanding the actual surface finish. That's how I assess the value to me. Look what Thor can do with a pistol with good metalwork ! I've 2 import marked guns, (and a 3rd I'm pretty sure is a re-work). All are nice condition, matching, (with one exception of two minor parts), representative guns. In fact I'm glad they are what they are; if they hadn't been dipped I could never have afforded them ! I do believe that these kind of guns are both a good introduction for the novice and unlikely to devalue. My mention of the one at the auction was to illustrate purely that a gun I find unattractive, (the general condition is pretty average at best), is fetching way more than the average estimate for a shooter. I'd also agree with Edward; these things are part of the gun's history. I'd bet money that should the Russians or East Germans have issued their reworks for combat use, people would have a different attitude to them today [img]wink.gif[/img]

11-22-2002, 03:16 PM	#7
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	Hello Again, There were a big bunch of WWI pistols that were marked "Germany" that nearly no one has any difficulty accepting. They were, in general, not messed with either. The 60's and 70's type imports were of several categories, those that were plundered and those that were "clean". My first Luger was one of the "messed" with bunch. A real abortion, but excuse the advertisement, Thor turned this mess into an excellent shooter. I am proud to say it gets many WOW's at the range and is extremely accurate. So again I say, the import mark is in the eye of the beholder!! Some are good, some acceptable and some not so good. Only the future will be able to decide the values!!! Sorry, but again <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />

11-22-2002, 04:38 PM	#9
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Hi Frank. I completely agree with your perspective. The presence, or absence, of an import mark is only a tiny part of the equation to me. You mention the 'Germany' marked guns. I believe this mark was used for commercial pistols, (some of which were re-works of military pistols ?), imported by the US representatives for resale. Do you know if this style of marking was also used at other times by other people ?

11-22-2002, 07:36 PM	#10
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Following WWI there were any number of dealers selling surplus Luger pistols. These pistols were also marked with the GERMANY import stamp which may be found stamped most anywhere on the pistol. These were not commercial pistols even though they were sold through commercial channels.

11-23-2002, 11:39 AM	#11
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Hi Johnny, thanks for the clarification. That makes the markings on some guns I've seen comprehendable at last. The variety of markings confused me before ! Was there a big market in importing used commercial guns as well as ex military ?