Pete's New 1928 Dutch KOL

Pete Ebbink · 01-11-2003, 11:53 PM

Well, after the most gracious and appreciated offer from Luger Forum member, Ron Wood; I now have been able to finally add a 1928 DWM Dutch KOL luger to my small luger collection.

Pistol is serial # 12410 and is Unit Marked as "LH XXI 44"; which stands for the "Left Half, 21st. Infantry Battalion, pistol # 44".

But this is not just an ordinary KOL.

I ran into Rod Wood at the last Tulsa gun show. Ron had just picked up this KOL and was kind enough to show it to me. Well, when it came out of the pistol case, I almost dropped dead...

My father, served in this exact unit when he was in the Dutch Indonesian army during 1939-42 before the country was over-run by the Japanese. My Dad's release paperwork from his service is still in our family, so I was able to confirm the Unit and this astounding coincidence !

I mentioned this to Ron and just asked him if he would keep me in mind if he every wanted to upgrade to a nicer KOL. Ron said he would. I left Tulsa thinking it might take many years for Ron to find a nicer KOL...but was hopeful that this particular KOL would be mine one day.

Well, not more than a week or so goes by and Ron calls and says this KOL should be mine and we should not wait for another KOL to cross his path. I was speechless...(yes, even me...) !!!

So the deal is swung and it becomes my Christmas present...

Although there is no way of knowing what pistol issue number my Dad had when he served, just having a piece of his history in my luger collection makes this the best luger in my collection !

Ron, I will forever be in your debt...

Some details about this KOL :

1. It appears to have the original DWM barrel.

2. It has a correct Dutch magazine; with its unique release spring clip. And has two reinforcing pins, added.

3. Grips (from the inside surfaces) seem to be very old wood, but the checkering is very sharpe. Might have had a re-checkering job at some time. Cannot believe such old grips could look so new on the outside...

4. All small parts match and have -10 stamped.

5. It has a unique "00" stamped on the front side (facing the bore) of the front sight base. I am not sure what this means ? Do any folks have ideas...?

6. Inside of the pistol is still "in the white" and does not appear to have been arsenal refinished, ever, in Indonesia...

Well, here are a series of photos...let me know if you folks see anything I might be missing...

Pete Ebbink · 01-11-2003, 11:55 PM

Pete Ebbink · 01-11-2003, 11:57 PM

Pete Ebbink · 01-11-2003, 11:58 PM

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

JohnF · 01-12-2003, 05:22 AM

Hi Pete,
Very nice pistol and from your Dad's unit too WOW!! I also have an M11 from the 1928 contract. Mine is S/N 13737. It doesn't have a brass plate though and I can't see any sign of there having been one. It has the crown/N nitro proof on the left frame and KL in a circle on the right. The magazine isn't Dutch though. Like yours, there is also an unusual mark at the front underneath the sight, which appears to be a D.
I can't post pics right now as the upload is still down - how did you post yours?

Vlim · 01-12-2003, 09:28 AM

Pete,

Congratulations, a lovely gun with a nice story to add! Just like JohnF, my M11 (1928 barrel, 11910) has a D mark on the front sight.

My frame is also 'in the white' but it has been reblued at some time! In the late 1930s the unit markings on the back of the frames were removed and replaced (in most cases) by the brass plates on the side
.
Reblueing was done over the filing marks.

Officer's guns usually didn't get the brass plates.

The grips seem to be GS replacements, produced at the 'geweermakersschool' in Java. Do they contain serial numbers or the GS mark?

I would expect that this gun was delivered with a later style magazine as the one shown. The Dutch found out that the spring catch was a bad idea in practice and retrofitted most with an extra locking pin (around 1927). After that they ordered regular style magazines with a locking pin.

Welcome to the 'dutch club'

Gerben

Edward Tinker · 01-12-2003, 11:21 AM

Just great Pete!

Ron did a nice thing, that is for sure

This is the temp link that John D has supplied us:

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/lfupload.html

Brandon · 01-12-2003, 11:32 AM

Hey Pete,
Gald you finally got a KOL for your collection!What are the odds of you finding another Luger marked to your Dad's unit? I would say "Very Slim to None"...

Also, I always knew Ron was a nice guy, but that was over the top! My hat is off to you Sir...

Both of you fellows treat yourselves to a drink on me... <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

Best Regards, Brandon

Pete Ebbink · 01-12-2003, 11:37 AM

Hello Gerben,

My grips both have a very faint "oval" stamped on the inside surfaces, but the stamp is so light that no letters are visible in the middle of the ovals...

The wood is very dense, maybe a hardwood from the tropics. The checkering is so sharp which led me to surmise they may be a more recent re-checkering. Also as Ron Wood mentioned to me, the pattern is that between DWM and the more coarse GS pattern...something in-between the two. I have never seem GS grips in person, but Ron has seen a few...

Regards,

Pete...

Vlim · 01-14-2003, 12:14 PM

Hi Pete,

The guys at the 'GS' usually marked their grips with the GS logo and the frame serial #.

If no serial # is present, I would suggest that they are indeed non-GS replacements.

I'll try to post a picture of the markings on my GS grip (right side only, other is DWM).

Pete Ebbink · 01-14-2003, 09:14 PM

Thanks, Gerben...

Look forward to seeing your photo of a GS grip in detail. The Dutch Luger book shows them in black & white, a color jpeg photo would be great.

I think you are right about my grips no being GS...I will just need to spend the next 5-10 years locating a compete GS set of grips...

Regards,

Pete

01-11-2003, 11:53 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Pete's New 1928 Dutch KOL Well, after the most gracious and appreciated offer from Luger Forum member, Ron Wood; I now have been able to finally add a 1928 DWM Dutch KOL luger to my small luger collection. Pistol is serial # 12410 and is Unit Marked as "LH XXI 44"; which stands for the "Left Half, 21st. Infantry Battalion, pistol # 44". But this is not just an ordinary KOL. I ran into Rod Wood at the last Tulsa gun show. Ron had just picked up this KOL and was kind enough to show it to me. Well, when it came out of the pistol case, I almost dropped dead... My father, served in this exact unit when he was in the Dutch Indonesian army during 1939-42 before the country was over-run by the Japanese. My Dad's release paperwork from his service is still in our family, so I was able to confirm the Unit and this astounding coincidence ! I mentioned this to Ron and just asked him if he would keep me in mind if he every wanted to upgrade to a nicer KOL. Ron said he would. I left Tulsa thinking it might take many years for Ron to find a nicer KOL...but was hopeful that this particular KOL would be mine one day. Well, not more than a week or so goes by and Ron calls and says this KOL should be mine and we should not wait for another KOL to cross his path. I was speechless...(yes, even me...) !!! So the deal is swung and it becomes my Christmas present... Although there is no way of knowing what pistol issue number my Dad had when he served, just having a piece of his history in my luger collection makes this the best luger in my collection ! Ron, I will forever be in your debt... Some details about this KOL : 1. It appears to have the original DWM barrel. 2. It has a correct Dutch magazine; with its unique release spring clip. And has two reinforcing pins, added. 3. Grips (from the inside surfaces) seem to be very old wood, but the checkering is very sharpe. Might have had a re-checkering job at some time. Cannot believe such old grips could look so new on the outside... 4. All small parts match and have -10 stamped. 5. It has a unique "00" stamped on the front side (facing the bore) of the front sight base. I am not sure what this means ? Do any folks have ideas...? 6. Inside of the pistol is still "in the white" and does not appear to have been arsenal refinished, ever, in Indonesia... Well, here are a series of photos...let me know if you folks see anything I might be missing...

01-12-2003, 11:21 AM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Just great Pete! Ron did a nice thing, that is for sure This is the temp link that John D has supplied us: http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/lfupload.html __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

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01-11-2003, 11:55 PM	#2
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts

01-11-2003, 11:57 PM	#3
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts

01-11-2003, 11:58 PM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

01-12-2003, 05:22 AM	#5
JohnF User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: UK Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hi Pete, Very nice pistol and from your Dad's unit too WOW!! I also have an M11 from the 1928 contract. Mine is S/N 13737. It doesn't have a brass plate though and I can't see any sign of there having been one. It has the crown/N nitro proof on the left frame and KL in a circle on the right. The magazine isn't Dutch though. Like yours, there is also an unusual mark at the front underneath the sight, which appears to be a D. I can't post pics right now as the upload is still down - how did you post yours?

01-12-2003, 09:28 AM	#6
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Pete, Congratulations, a lovely gun with a nice story to add! Just like JohnF, my M11 (1928 barrel, 11910) has a D mark on the front sight. My frame is also 'in the white' but it has been reblued at some time! In the late 1930s the unit markings on the back of the frames were removed and replaced (in most cases) by the brass plates on the side . Reblueing was done over the filing marks. Officer's guns usually didn't get the brass plates. The grips seem to be GS replacements, produced at the 'geweermakersschool' in Java. Do they contain serial numbers or the GS mark? I would expect that this gun was delivered with a later style magazine as the one shown. The Dutch found out that the spring catch was a bad idea in practice and retrofitted most with an extra locking pin (around 1927). After that they ordered regular style magazines with a locking pin. Welcome to the 'dutch club' Gerben

01-12-2003, 11:32 AM	#8
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hey Pete, Gald you finally got a KOL for your collection!What are the odds of you finding another Luger marked to your Dad's unit? I would say "Very Slim to None"... Also, I always knew Ron was a nice guy, but that was over the top! My hat is off to you Sir... Both of you fellows treat yourselves to a drink on me... <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> Best Regards, Brandon

01-12-2003, 11:37 AM	#9
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Gerben, My grips both have a very faint "oval" stamped on the inside surfaces, but the stamp is so light that no letters are visible in the middle of the ovals... The wood is very dense, maybe a hardwood from the tropics. The checkering is so sharp which led me to surmise they may be a more recent re-checkering. Also as Ron Wood mentioned to me, the pattern is that between DWM and the more coarse GS pattern...something in-between the two. I have never seem GS grips in person, but Ron has seen a few... Regards, Pete...

01-14-2003, 12:14 PM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi Pete, The guys at the 'GS' usually marked their grips with the GS logo and the frame serial #. If no serial # is present, I would suggest that they are indeed non-GS replacements. I'll try to post a picture of the markings on my GS grip (right side only, other is DWM).

01-14-2003, 09:14 PM	#11
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks, Gerben... Look forward to seeing your photo of a GS grip in detail. The Dutch Luger book shows them in black & white, a color jpeg photo would be great. I think you are right about my grips no being GS...I will just need to spend the next 5-10 years locating a compete GS set of grips... Regards, Pete