Luger dating

Arvin · 12-17-2003, 06:59 PM

Hi,
I just got my first Luger. It is a DWM made Luger. The serial number is 68xx k. It has a 4 inch barrel all matching, it is in good shape. I am curious to how old it is. It looks like it has a rail on the backstrap to attach a buttstock. It is a 30 caliber Luger and the bore is near perfect. Any help would be nice. Thanks Arvin

Edward Tinker · 12-17-2003, 07:56 PM

Arvin, we would need a bit more information.

I am guessing it does not have a date on the top of the receiver, as it is 30 Luger. But the serial number is in the military style, so at first glance, I would assume it is a WW1 rework, turned into a commerical and sent to america during the 1920 or 30's?

On the left of www.lugerforum.com is a tech information area where you can print out and then give us further info.

BTW, it is not legal to place a stock onto the luger, even tho it has a stock lug.

Welcome to the forum!

Ed

Doubs · 12-17-2003, 08:55 PM

The "Alphabet" Lugers began with the "i" block so it's my guess that it's a 1920 Commercial or "Alphabet" Luger made new in the mid-1920's.

Arvin · 12-17-2003, 10:47 PM

Ok,
Here is what we got. the toggle inscription id the DWM script logo. There is no chamber inscription. the toggle knobs are the squared and knurled. it doesn't have the grip safety and does have the stock lug. I don't intend on buying a stock either. the caliber is 7.65 Luger, but is not marked. the grips are checkered walnut without border. the thumb safety is marked Gesichert. the bottom of the barrel is marked with the serial number over a script K. all small parts are marked with the last 2 numbers of the serial number, the serial number is 6848, the nitro proof on the reciever is of the #28 variety the vertical crown over N. the barrel length is 3.75". the extractor is marked Geladen. the front sight is a windage adjustable piece with the sight base being part of the barrel, the rear sight is nothing more than a v notch in the rear. and the magazine is unmarked with a smooth walnut bottom plug. I hope this helps. Thanks again Arvin

Lugerdoc · 12-18-2003, 10:24 AM

Arvin, Your description above is consistent with what Kenyon calls a 1920 Commerical in "Lugers at Randon". Probably actually made around 1921 after the 5 digit commericals reached the 100K range, and DWM switch to the military style of serialization for their commericals, starting in the "i" block, so your "k" range commerical would be in the second block of 10K, because there was no "j" block. Th

Doubs · 12-19-2003, 01:07 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Lugerdoc:
Probably actually made around 1921 after the 5 digit commericals reached the 100K range, and DWM switch to the military style of serialization for their commericals, starting in the "i" block Th<hr /></blockquote>According to Still's "Weimar Lugers", pg 30, it is thought that the change from 5-digit commercial serial numbers to the 4-digit with suffix letter commerial numbering took place at approximately 92,000 with the first such serial number being 2000i. That would logically pick up where the 5-digit numbers left off. (No suffix letter, a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h plus 2000 making up a total of 92000).

There is a footnote, however, that also states that it's "possible" that the commercial 5-digit numbers went as high as 100,000. If so, I don't recall ever seeing a commercial Luger in the 5-digit range above 92,000 and I tend to go with the change over at the 92,000 point. It's pointed out in the text that 1921 was a time of confusion and that some Lugers have been noted with serial numbers that tend to confuse the issue and make positive statements impossible. The one thing you make be sure of is that your "k" suffix letter Luger is early in the production of the 1920 commercial or "Alphabet" Luger.

Arvin · 12-19-2003, 01:17 AM

Doubs and Lugerdoc,
Thanks I don't know what to think of this Luger. It is in good shape. The thing that gets me is the lack of chamber dating. But I have no clue on Lugers I am just learning and looking forward to collecting more. Thanks Arvin

Ron Wood · 12-19-2003, 01:36 AM

Not all Lugers are dated. Some variations do not have chamber dates, yours is one of them. Hope you enjoy this new hobby and always be open to learning new things. After 45 years of collecting, I am still learning.

John Sabato · 12-19-2003, 09:55 AM

Yeah... I "dated" a Luger once when I was 7 years old... and we are still together a half a century later!

Arvin · 12-19-2003, 02:13 PM

John,
That is terrible. I just hope you got over the language barrier and she has treated you good over the years. I am having a little problems with speaking German but I know a phrase or two.

Thanks Arvin

12-17-2003, 06:59 PM	#1
Arvin User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Luger dating Hi, I just got my first Luger. It is a DWM made Luger. The serial number is 68xx k. It has a 4 inch barrel all matching, it is in good shape. I am curious to how old it is. It looks like it has a rail on the backstrap to attach a buttstock. It is a 30 caliber Luger and the bore is near perfect. Any help would be nice. Thanks Arvin

12-18-2003, 10:24 AM	#5
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Arvin, Your description above is consistent with what Kenyon calls a 1920 Commerical in "Lugers at Randon". Probably actually made around 1921 after the 5 digit commericals reached the 100K range, and DWM switch to the military style of serialization for their commericals, starting in the "i" block, so your "k" range commerical would be in the second block of 10K, because there was no "j" block. Th __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-19-2003, 01:07 AM	#6
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 819 Thanked 1,769 Times in 586 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Lugerdoc: <strong>Probably actually made around 1921 after the 5 digit commericals reached the 100K range, and DWM switch to the military style of serialization for their commericals, starting in the "i" block Th</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">According to Still's "Weimar Lugers", pg 30, it is thought that the change from 5-digit commercial serial numbers to the 4-digit with suffix letter commerial numbering took place at approximately 92,000 with the first such serial number being 2000i. That would logically pick up where the 5-digit numbers left off. (No suffix letter, a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h plus 2000 making up a total of 92000). There is a footnote, however, that also states that it's "possible" that the commercial 5-digit numbers went as high as 100,000. If so, I don't recall ever seeing a commercial Luger in the 5-digit range above 92,000 and I tend to go with the change over at the 92,000 point. It's pointed out in the text that 1921 was a time of confusion and that some Lugers have been noted with serial numbers that tend to confuse the issue and make positive statements impossible. The one thing you make be sure of is that your "k" suffix letter Luger is early in the production of the 1920 commercial or "Alphabet" Luger.

12-19-2003, 01:36 AM	#8
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Not all Lugers are dated. Some variations do not have chamber dates, yours is one of them. Hope you enjoy this new hobby and always be open to learning new things. After 45 years of collecting, I am still learning. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-19-2003, 09:55 AM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Yeah... I "dated" a Luger once when I was 7 years old... and we are still together a half a century later! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-17-2003, 07:56 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Arvin, we would need a bit more information. I am guessing it does not have a date on the top of the receiver, as it is 30 Luger. But the serial number is in the military style, so at first glance, I would assume it is a WW1 rework, turned into a commerical and sent to america during the 1920 or 30's? On the left of www.lugerforum.com is a tech information area where you can print out and then give us further info. BTW, it is not legal to place a stock onto the luger, even tho it has a stock lug. Welcome to the forum! Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-17-2003, 08:55 PM	#3
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 819 Thanked 1,769 Times in 586 Posts	The "Alphabet" Lugers began with the "i" block so it's my guess that it's a 1920 Commercial or "Alphabet" Luger made new in the mid-1920's.

12-17-2003, 10:47 PM	#4
Arvin User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ok, Here is what we got. the toggle inscription id the DWM script logo. There is no chamber inscription. the toggle knobs are the squared and knurled. it doesn't have the grip safety and does have the stock lug. I don't intend on buying a stock either. the caliber is 7.65 Luger, but is not marked. the grips are checkered walnut without border. the thumb safety is marked Gesichert. the bottom of the barrel is marked with the serial number over a script K. all small parts are marked with the last 2 numbers of the serial number, the serial number is 6848, the nitro proof on the reciever is of the #28 variety the vertical crown over N. the barrel length is 3.75". the extractor is marked Geladen. the front sight is a windage adjustable piece with the sight base being part of the barrel, the rear sight is nothing more than a v notch in the rear. and the magazine is unmarked with a smooth walnut bottom plug. I hope this helps. Thanks again Arvin

12-19-2003, 01:17 AM	#7
Arvin User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Doubs and Lugerdoc, Thanks I don't know what to think of this Luger. It is in good shape. The thing that gets me is the lack of chamber dating. But I have no clue on Lugers I am just learning and looking forward to collecting more. Thanks Arvin

12-19-2003, 02:13 PM	#10
Arvin User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John, That is terrible. I just hope you got over the language barrier and she has treated you good over the years. I am having a little problems with speaking German but I know a phrase or two. Thanks Arvin

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