P.08 1936 S/42 markings question?

kris · 10-01-2003, 12:54 PM

Hi all,

I've put on

Topic

some photo's and questioins concerning markings inside my P.08.

If you guys would be so nice to take a look, maybe you can explain me some marks...

Thanks a lot & kind regards,

Kris
on1dfr@proximus.be

John Sabato · 10-01-2003, 01:18 PM

I can't see the photo's that you have posted...

the area where the photo should be looks like this:

Why not just post the photos here?

kris · 10-01-2003, 02:21 PM

Hello John,

Is it possible now to post pictures direct on this site or do they need to be on another website like it used to be before?

Regards,

Kris

John Sabato · 10-01-2003, 02:43 PM

Enter the site throught the homepage (link at the bottom of this page) and the link to upload photographs is on the black frame to your left.

kris · 10-01-2003, 03:09 PM

ok, let's see if this works <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Great, it does !

I've read the excellent article on this site concerning the lines like in the green frame on the photo. Does these look ok to you, i mean for not being re-barreled?

Also, does anyone know what are te other markings?
I explain myself: the first red circle underneath the green frame is an 'L'.
The one right-below the L is a 'B' and to the right of that is a - to me unknown- mark.
Far below there are traces of an 'eagle' mark.

Thanks,
Kris

kris · 10-01-2003, 03:16 PM

Photo 2:

- A large M (or W?) with on it's right something that looks like a greek omega letter.

- the 2 blue circles: unreadable 'shades' of a stamp.

- right below an N.

I have no idea what they mean? Anyone knows?

kris · 10-01-2003, 03:19 PM

<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/P08_3a.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/P08_3a.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Photo 3: very bad or not visible but...

- big red circle below: capital letter B
- little circle above: letter 4
- blue circle: an S with below 3 parallel lines

kris · 10-01-2003, 03:23 PM

<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/P08_5.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/P08_5.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

General view. Are those inside markings meaningless manufactering marks or do they mean something?

kris · 10-01-2003, 03:27 PM

<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/P08_7.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/P08_7.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

View from above.
Sorry if photo's are too big, i'm still learning...

Thanks in advance for all info.

Kris
on1dfr@proximus.be

John Sabato · 10-01-2003, 03:44 PM

(Oversize Photos thumbnailed by me-JS)

Click on the image to see them full size.

John Sabato · 10-01-2003, 03:49 PM

Kris,

Please post this photo again but without your additions to be added to Dwight Gruber's database for witness lines.

In answer to your question, it does not appear that this gun has been rebarreled in my opinion.

Thanks,

kris · 10-02-2003, 01:02 AM

Hello John,

Thanks for your comments.

Off course i deleted the original picture but no worries, i'll get another scan.

What are your thoughts on the other markings?

Regards,
Kris
on1dfr@proximus.be

Dwight Gruber · 10-02-2003, 02:49 AM

Kris,

From the photo it is difficult to tell about the witness mark. It appears that it is aligned, but I cannot tell if it is a single strike or two. A larger view of just this area would prove useful.

The barrel serial# and the barrel gage (the 8,82 = groove diameter of the barrel) have what is called "halo", an indicator that the stampings were done after the barrel was blued and characteristic of Lugers with their original finish. You can probably find out quite a bit about halo if you do a search on the term.

The other stamps, particularly the capital letters, are workers' stamps. It is not entirely clear what they signify, probably a "sign-off" in some manner on the work. The regulations for marking P-08s permit these stamps, but do not assign a meaning to them. A study of these stamps was begun several years ago, but I am not aware of any published conclusions.

It looks like your gun is a 196-dated S/42? Are the small parts--trigger, safety lever, magazine button, ejector--actually strawed, yellow-colored? Is the magazine body nickel-plated or blued? It would be nice to see larger views of the entire gun--from what you have posted here, it looks like a pretty fine example.

--Dwight

kris · 10-02-2003, 04:25 AM

Hello Dwight,

Thanks for the explanation on the worker stamps;
The little parts are indeed strawed, on some places this strawing is a bit faded already.

The magazine body is nickel plated i think but is not matching to the gun. It's from the same era though (has also 'agle/63' stamp as the gun has) another S/N and a '+' indicating spare mag.

I'll post more pictures soon.

Kind regards,

Kris
on1dfr@proximus.be

kris · 10-02-2003, 02:20 PM

For John:

kris · 10-02-2003, 02:21 PM

kris · 10-02-2003, 02:23 PM

Another view:

kris · 10-02-2003, 02:25 PM

General photo

kind regards to all !

Kris
on1dfr@proximus.be

10-01-2003, 12:54 PM	#1
kris User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	P.08 1936 S/42 markings question? Hi all, I've put on Topic some photo's and questioins concerning markings inside my P.08. If you guys would be so nice to take a look, maybe you can explain me some marks... Thanks a lot & kind regards, Kris on1dfr@proximus.be __________________ Kris

10-01-2003, 01:18 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	I can't see the photo's that you have posted... the area where the photo should be looks like this: Why not just post the photos here? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-01-2003, 02:21 PM	#3
kris User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello John, Is it possible now to post pictures direct on this site or do they need to be on another website like it used to be before? Regards, Kris __________________ Kris

10-01-2003, 02:43 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Enter the site throught the homepage (link at the bottom of this page) and the link to upload photographs is on the black frame to your left. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-01-2003, 03:09 PM	#5
kris User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	ok, let's see if this works <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Great, it does ! I've read the excellent article on this site concerning the lines like in the green frame on the photo. Does these look ok to you, i mean for not being re-barreled? Also, does anyone know what are te other markings? I explain myself: the first red circle underneath the green frame is an 'L'. The one right-below the L is a 'B' and to the right of that is a - to me unknown- mark. Far below there are traces of an 'eagle' mark. Thanks, Kris __________________ Kris

10-01-2003, 03:16 PM	#6
kris User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Photo 2: - A large M (or W?) with on it's right something that looks like a greek omega letter. - the 2 blue circles: unreadable 'shades' of a stamp. - right below an N. I have no idea what they mean? Anyone knows? __________________ Kris

10-01-2003, 03:19 PM	#7
kris User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/P08_3a.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/P08_3a.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> Photo 3: very bad or not visible but... - big red circle below: capital letter B - little circle above: letter 4 - blue circle: an S with below 3 parallel lines __________________ Kris

10-01-2003, 03:23 PM	#8
kris User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/P08_5.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/P08_5.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> General view. Are those inside markings meaningless manufactering marks or do they mean something? __________________ Kris

10-01-2003, 03:27 PM	#9
kris User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/P08_7.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/P08_7.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> View from above. Sorry if photo's are too big, i'm still learning... Thanks in advance for all info. Kris on1dfr@proximus.be __________________ Kris

10-01-2003, 03:44 PM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	(Oversize Photos thumbnailed by me-JS) Click on the image to see them full size. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-01-2003, 03:49 PM	#11
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Kris, Please post this photo again but without your additions to be added to Dwight Gruber's database for witness lines. In answer to your question, it does not appear that this gun has been rebarreled in my opinion. Thanks, __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-02-2003, 01:02 AM	#12
kris User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello John, Thanks for your comments. Off course i deleted the original picture but no worries, i'll get another scan. What are your thoughts on the other markings? Regards, Kris on1dfr@proximus.be __________________ Kris

10-02-2003, 02:49 AM	#13
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Kris, From the photo it is difficult to tell about the witness mark. It appears that it is aligned, but I cannot tell if it is a single strike or two. A larger view of just this area would prove useful. The barrel serial# and the barrel gage (the 8,82 = groove diameter of the barrel) have what is called "halo", an indicator that the stampings were done after the barrel was blued and characteristic of Lugers with their original finish. You can probably find out quite a bit about halo if you do a search on the term. The other stamps, particularly the capital letters, are workers' stamps. It is not entirely clear what they signify, probably a "sign-off" in some manner on the work. The regulations for marking P-08s permit these stamps, but do not assign a meaning to them. A study of these stamps was begun several years ago, but I am not aware of any published conclusions. It looks like your gun is a 196-dated S/42? Are the small parts--trigger, safety lever, magazine button, ejector--actually strawed, yellow-colored? Is the magazine body nickel-plated or blued? It would be nice to see larger views of the entire gun--from what you have posted here, it looks like a pretty fine example. --Dwight

10-02-2003, 04:25 AM	#14
kris User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello Dwight, Thanks for the explanation on the worker stamps; The little parts are indeed strawed, on some places this strawing is a bit faded already. The magazine body is nickel plated i think but is not matching to the gun. It's from the same era though (has also 'agle/63' stamp as the gun has) another S/N and a '+' indicating spare mag. I'll post more pictures soon. Kind regards, Kris on1dfr@proximus.be __________________ Kris

10-02-2003, 02:20 PM	#15
kris User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	For John: __________________ Kris

10-02-2003, 02:21 PM	#16
kris User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	__________________ Kris

10-02-2003, 02:23 PM	#17
kris User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Another view: __________________ Kris

10-02-2003, 02:25 PM	#18
kris User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	General photo kind regards to all ! Kris on1dfr@proximus.be __________________ Kris

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