byf 41 questions

Dwight Gruber · 03-19-2003, 10:19 PM

I've been offered a premium byf 41 Black Widow (at a premium price) and since I don't have much experience with these I have a couple of questions.

Were these guns polished to metal inside the frame, or were they left blue? Where in the serial number range did they start to use black plastic grips?

Thanks for the info.

--Dwight

Lonnie Zimmerman · 03-19-2003, 11:21 PM

Dwight; they were not polished inside but I don"t know when the Black Widow grips started.
Lonnie

kidvett · 03-19-2003, 11:30 PM

hello,

Black plastic grips started around t block of the BYF 41's...earlier guns would indicate replacements...

kidvett <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Frank · 03-20-2003, 09:44 AM

Dwight, both Lonnie and Kidvett are correct. It is also important to note the acceptance marks. If they are both E/655 it is the most common, if it has both E/655 and E/135 it is the least common and if both E/135 fairly rare. This, in part, would determine the price. Good Luck!

cfowler · 03-20-2003, 10:37 PM

I TOO HAVE A byf41 Black Widow with serial number 2 all over each part. Is there really a seial number 2?

Dwight Gruber · 03-21-2003, 02:47 AM

Guys,

Thanks for all the help. This gun had two E/655marks, was perhaps in the best original shape I have ever seen any Luger in. If not for one sad flaw (the gun had been kept in a non-Luger holster, and the finish on the side plate island had been worn) it would have been honest-to-pete 99%. The bore was as new. I had to pass on it because the dealer simply wanted too much for it. Learned a bunch here, though.

--Dwight

Bob in OH · 03-21-2003, 05:58 AM

Just Curious...what was that price??

Frank · 03-21-2003, 09:50 AM

Dwight, I know the feeling. I have passed up a few for that same reason.

Keep looking and good hunting!!

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

BTW - Thanks for the tip on using my scanner to get some suffix photos to Eduard!! <img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" />

Dwight Gruber · 03-21-2003, 10:40 AM

Bob,

It was offered to me for $1.8k. The sticker price on it was...higher. He doesn't negotiate.

--Dwight

Aaron · 03-21-2003, 10:53 AM

You know, while the price was somewhat high, I think investment wise it would probably reach that value in around 3-5 years. Considering a minty set of BW grips recently sold for $480, there are people who want to improve the condition of their BWs and will spend big bucks to do it. While a more realistic value on the Luger in question might be $1250 to $1400, minty Lugers are getting really hard to find and a buyer often has to pay a premium price to get one.

Frank · 03-21-2003, 01:41 PM

Aaron, I think a set of BW grips will go for about $200 and a nice BW magazine for about $150. So if you have a legit BW and add $350, it would be too high a price to pay for one with matching grips and a matching magazine!!!!

Just my thought!!

Silvereagle29 · 04-03-2003, 05:52 AM

Black plastic grips were authorized for issue in June of 1941 on the 41-byf Luger. Considering the 41-byf was made with the n, o, p , q, r, s, t, u, v, w, x, y, z, ns, a and b letter suffix, Which of these represent June of 1941. Clue The - n - block was mostly 1940-42 and 41-42 Lugers with a few 41-byf. the - o - block was a 50-50 41-42 and 41.byf. The 42-byf appeared in the ns block so the 41-byf shared the ns a and b with the 42-byf. I know the answer, so lets consider it a quiz question and see who comes up with the answer (suffix letter) that most collectors like.

03-19-2003, 10:19 PM	#1
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	byf 41 questions I've been offered a premium byf 41 Black Widow (at a premium price) and since I don't have much experience with these I have a couple of questions. Were these guns polished to metal inside the frame, or were they left blue? Where in the serial number range did they start to use black plastic grips? Thanks for the info. --Dwight

03-19-2003, 11:21 PM	#2
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Dwight; they were not polished inside but I don"t know when the Black Widow grips started. Lonnie __________________ Lonnie Zimmerman

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03-19-2003, 11:30 PM	#3
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	hello, Black plastic grips started around t block of the BYF 41's...earlier guns would indicate replacements... kidvett <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

03-20-2003, 09:44 AM	#4
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	Dwight, both Lonnie and Kidvett are correct. It is also important to note the acceptance marks. If they are both E/655 it is the most common, if it has both E/655 and E/135 it is the least common and if both E/135 fairly rare. This, in part, would determine the price. Good Luck!

03-20-2003, 10:37 PM	#5
cfowler User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I TOO HAVE A byf41 Black Widow with serial number 2 all over each part. Is there really a seial number 2?

03-21-2003, 02:47 AM	#6
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Guys, Thanks for all the help. This gun had two E/655marks, was perhaps in the best original shape I have ever seen any Luger in. If not for one sad flaw (the gun had been kept in a non-Luger holster, and the finish on the side plate island had been worn) it would have been honest-to-pete 99%. The bore was as new. I had to pass on it because the dealer simply wanted too much for it. Learned a bunch here, though. --Dwight

03-21-2003, 05:58 AM	#7
Bob in OH User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NE OH Posts: 129 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Just Curious...what was that price??

03-21-2003, 09:50 AM	#8
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	Dwight, I know the feeling. I have passed up a few for that same reason. Keep looking and good hunting!! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> BTW - Thanks for the tip on using my scanner to get some suffix photos to Eduard!! <img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" />

03-21-2003, 10:40 AM	#9
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Bob, It was offered to me for $1.8k. The sticker price on it was...higher. He doesn't negotiate. --Dwight

03-21-2003, 10:53 AM	#10
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	You know, while the price was somewhat high, I think investment wise it would probably reach that value in around 3-5 years. Considering a minty set of BW grips recently sold for $480, there are people who want to improve the condition of their BWs and will spend big bucks to do it. While a more realistic value on the Luger in question might be $1250 to $1400, minty Lugers are getting really hard to find and a buyer often has to pay a premium price to get one.

03-21-2003, 01:41 PM	#11
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	Aaron, I think a set of BW grips will go for about $200 and a nice BW magazine for about $150. So if you have a legit BW and add $350, it would be too high a price to pay for one with matching grips and a matching magazine!!!! Just my thought!!

04-03-2003, 05:52 AM	#12
Silvereagle29 User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 105 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Black plastic grips were authorized for issue in June of 1941 on the 41-byf Luger. Considering the 41-byf was made with the n, o, p , q, r, s, t, u, v, w, x, y, z, ns, a and b letter suffix, Which of these represent June of 1941. Clue The - n - block was mostly 1940-42 and 41-42 Lugers with a few 41-byf. the - o - block was a 50-50 41-42 and 41.byf. The 42-byf appeared in the ns block so the 41-byf shared the ns a and b with the 42-byf. I know the answer, so lets consider it a quiz question and see who comes up with the answer (suffix letter) that most collectors like.