Info on my 1916 DWM luger

Bryon · 01-17-2003, 02:03 PM

Ok I am still deciding on the 41 ByF so I thought I would have all of you tell me about my 1916.All part numbers match on pistol except grips and mag.

1916 DWM

Serial 4312

Under barrel: 4312 then a fancy looking "X" then 882 under that.

Right frame: Proof marks #15 from the tech page
Right barrel: Proof mark #17
Breech block: Proof mark # 14
Front of frame: 4312 with an fancy looking "a" prefix.

There is a lug on the bottom of the barrel that is stamped "VF"

Extractor "Geladen"

Front strap marked: 127.R.12.23

Bore is pitted, Lands/grooves not very sharp at all, it's seen many rounds!!

All internal parts are numbered #12

Grips and Mag do not match.

Finish, 80% strawing on the correct parts is there.

What do you think? Value, Shooter?

I will post some pics. I am going to buy a Digital camera today.

Thanks...Bryon

Edward Tinker · 01-17-2003, 03:34 PM

The pitting is a shame, but gives it character, also being unit marked is great.

I would, unless I missed something, a low to mid grade collector?

RockinWR · 01-18-2003, 07:16 PM

Bryon,
* Hi again !! How's that "widow" treating ya?? Still a slice of history. Glad you can enjoy. Sounds like it was a good deal!!
* Jan Still's Vol. IV, Imperial Lugers, Pg.24 states 140,000 of this 1916 DWM were made. DWM's most prolific WWI production year. All data you reported fits a WWI Army save for the "fancy x".
* Serial range of known examples is 80_ to 7060q.
* The test proof #17 is an Erfurt Arsenal mark & is known to rightfully exist on some examples. Guess that was how DWM made so many...used barrels from the Army Arsenal to overcome their own part's shortages.
* Jan states only 1% of the 1916 DWM's were Unit marked. As Ed notes, this is a plus for this piece.
* As you can see by the S/N range, an "x" by the barrel S/N is out-of-range. Neither DWM nor Erfurt are known to have made it to the "x" block in any WWI year of production based on current reported examples. Mystery mark... possibly interpreted a number of ways (Post War, barrel condemnation, etc.). The digitals may help clear this up. Anyway, the S/N of this piece is the frame S/N of 4312a.
* Agree with Ed on "a collectible" w/ the "x" Caveat pending.
WR

Bryon · 01-19-2003, 03:39 AM

I can't pick up the 41 ByF for 10 days since I live the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia.

With regard to the DWM, I guess I will have two shooters. I have not taken this pistol apart since my father gave it to me, haven't fired it either. So I was wondering about the grips today, I took the entire pistol apart, and the inside of the grip panels are stamped #12. Very nice, I starting to feel really good,

Now the bad news, I did not see a #12 on the firing pin or the rear axis pin

Oh well. I have two nice pieces of history that I can shoot. I guess this means I need a true collector piece!! My wife is going to kill me!!

Thanks for all of your help, I will be much better informed on the Luger #3!!

Lugerdoc · 01-19-2003, 08:06 AM

Byron, The main axels of WW1 PO8s were unnumbered, unless reworked after orig production. Your unrelieved firing pin should have the last 2 digits of the serial.

Pete Ebbink · 01-19-2003, 11:36 AM

Byron,

Since you mentioned you need to wait 10-days for your next luger in CA-State, I will assume you do not have a C&R licence.

You might find out that you also will run into the "not more than 1 gun per month" limitation in CA-State as well.

Both of these pieces of nonsense and the $75-$100 transfer fees my local gun shops were charging me, lead me to see the wisdom of a C&R license...

Here is the breakdown on the licenses and fees in CA-State :

1. Federal BATF C&R license, $ 30.00 (may have gone up recently...), good for 3 years.

2. CA-State COE (certificate of elgibility), $ 18.00, good for 1 year.

3. CA-State BFSC (basic firearms safety certificate), $ 12.00, good for life.

4. CA-State, $ 14.00 registration fee to the DOJ for each C&R gun I bring into the State. You have 5-days from time of possession to file this fee/form with each gun. It goes down to $ 10.00 per gun if you register more than one gun at the same time.

Great place for gun ownership... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

01-17-2003, 03:34 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,927 Thanks: 2,026 Thanked 4,525 Times in 2,090 Posts	The pitting is a shame, but gives it character, also being unit marked is great. I would, unless I missed something, a low to mid grade collector? __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-19-2003, 08:06 AM	#5
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Byron, The main axels of WW1 PO8s were unnumbered, unless reworked after orig production. Your unrelieved firing pin should have the last 2 digits of the serial. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

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01-17-2003, 02:03 PM	#1
Bryon User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: CA Posts: 30 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Info on my 1916 DWM luger Ok I am still deciding on the 41 ByF so I thought I would have all of you tell me about my 1916.All part numbers match on pistol except grips and mag. 1916 DWM Serial 4312 Under barrel: 4312 then a fancy looking "X" then 882 under that. Right frame: Proof marks #15 from the tech page Right barrel: Proof mark #17 Breech block: Proof mark # 14 Front of frame: 4312 with an fancy looking "a" prefix. There is a lug on the bottom of the barrel that is stamped "VF" Extractor "Geladen" Front strap marked: 127.R.12.23 Bore is pitted, Lands/grooves not very sharp at all, it's seen many rounds!! All internal parts are numbered #12 Grips and Mag do not match. Finish, 80% strawing on the correct parts is there. What do you think? Value, Shooter? I will post some pics. I am going to buy a Digital camera today. Thanks...Bryon

01-18-2003, 07:16 PM	#3
RockinWR User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: D/FW, Tx Posts: 279 Thanks: 109 Thanked 31 Times in 16 Posts	Bryon, * Hi again !! How's that "widow" treating ya?? Still a slice of history. Glad you can enjoy. Sounds like it was a good deal!! * Jan Still's Vol. IV, Imperial Lugers, Pg.24 states 140,000 of this 1916 DWM were made. DWM's most prolific WWI production year. All data you reported fits a WWI Army save for the "fancy x". * Serial range of known examples is 80_ to 7060q. * The test proof #17 is an Erfurt Arsenal mark & is known to rightfully exist on some examples. Guess that was how DWM made so many...used barrels from the Army Arsenal to overcome their own part's shortages. * Jan states only 1% of the 1916 DWM's were Unit marked. As Ed notes, this is a plus for this piece. * As you can see by the S/N range, an "x" by the barrel S/N is out-of-range. Neither DWM nor Erfurt are known to have made it to the "x" block in any WWI year of production based on current reported examples. Mystery mark... possibly interpreted a number of ways (Post War, barrel condemnation, etc.). The digitals may help clear this up. Anyway, the S/N of this piece is the frame S/N of 4312a. * Agree with Ed on "a collectible" w/ the "x" Caveat pending. WR

01-19-2003, 03:39 AM	#4
Bryon User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: CA Posts: 30 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I can't pick up the 41 ByF for 10 days since I live the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia. With regard to the DWM, I guess I will have two shooters. I have not taken this pistol apart since my father gave it to me, haven't fired it either. So I was wondering about the grips today, I took the entire pistol apart, and the inside of the grip panels are stamped #12. Very nice, I starting to feel really good, Now the bad news, I did not see a #12 on the firing pin or the rear axis pin Oh well. I have two nice pieces of history that I can shoot. I guess this means I need a true collector piece!! My wife is going to kill me!! Thanks for all of your help, I will be much better informed on the Luger #3!!

01-19-2003, 11:36 AM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Byron, Since you mentioned you need to wait 10-days for your next luger in CA-State, I will assume you do not have a C&R licence. You might find out that you also will run into the "not more than 1 gun per month" limitation in CA-State as well. Both of these pieces of nonsense and the $75-$100 transfer fees my local gun shops were charging me, lead me to see the wisdom of a C&R license... Here is the breakdown on the licenses and fees in CA-State : 1. Federal BATF C&R license, $ 30.00 (may have gone up recently...), good for 3 years. 2. CA-State COE (certificate of elgibility), $ 18.00, good for 1 year. 3. CA-State BFSC (basic firearms safety certificate), $ 12.00, good for life. 4. CA-State, $ 14.00 registration fee to the DOJ for each C&R gun I bring into the State. You have 5-days from time of possession to file this fee/form with each gun. It goes down to $ 10.00 per gun if you register more than one gun at the same time. Great place for gun ownership... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />