Bore cleaning

[Navystv]

Hello brothers in lugers.
Altought my P08's bore has 70% of his grooves, it is not shiny. I've used a brass cleaning rod + oil, but all the patches (5) come out still black; I need your suggestion(s) to clean it properly, w/o hurt the blueing.
Thanks,
Marzio

[John Sabato]

Ciao Marzio!

Because of the age of your Luger, and the fact that for at least a portion of it's service life it used corrosive primed ammunition, it may never be shiney... but it can be improved.

If it is very dark and standard bore cleaning methods have not improved it much, you can lap the barrel with a lead slug that has been swaged to fit and using the finest grade of automotive valve grinding compound you can improve the appearance of the bore by lapping.

This is a technique that was started by bench rest shooter years ago...and I Don't know if it will improve accuracy, but it will make the bore look better...BUT BEFORE YOU DO THIS... SHOOT IT! Many old Luger barrels that look terrible, still shoot like they were brand new!

[Edward Tinker]

More than likely you won't hurt the bluing by using traditional methods. There are ways to soak the interior of the bore, I have read this, but don't remember what to use. I have used and spent hours trying to clean out a bore, in the army, they always told you to just keep cleaning until it came out clean!

I am sure someone has a safe effective method for bore cleaning? sometimes that 70% bore cleans up even nicer and sometimes shows worse wear!

[trigger643]

Marzio,

Try WD-40. Just spray it through the bore until it runs clear, run a patch, repeat. You may wish to let it soak overnight. It will not harm the finish and is wonderful for removing carbon build up, grit and grime. It is a trick I learned for quick cleanup/lube of HK weapons. It is a dust magnet however, and afterwords I run break free or rem-oil over everything to remove the residue.

as an aside...
A few years ago I tried a bore snake. I've been using them ever since. They are wonderful for everything except the most stubborn copper fowling and I use them in my pistols and long guns.

Glen

[Navystv]

Thanks you all.
I've shooted 40 Fiocchi teflon coned head bullets (in lead, fmj's are not allowed in my range), but the bore is still black; I wish try WD-40, but...what is this? Can you give me more information about it (I guess It will be really hard to find it here)?
And, could you tell me how are the bores of your Lugers? I think it should be difficult to find one really pretty, considering the age and the corrosive ammunition used by germans, as John told above.
Regards and thanks again,
Marzio

[trigger643]

http://www.wd40.com is their home page. It's a cleaner and lubricant used by mechanics. It's good for a wide range of jobs. I used some this morning to stop a squeaking garage door. It's petroleum based. I don't know where you would obtain it over there.

I have used it regularly for years in my HK rifles and have had good success cleaning up neglected bores.

[Lonnie Zimmerman]

Navystv; I would think the Hoppes #9 would clean your bore better than oil. I don"t know hardly anyone that uses oil for a bore cleaner.
Lonnie

[Navy]

There is a mystical concoction known as "Ed's Red", that was originally published, if memory serves, in Julian hatcher's work during the 1930's. It is a real witches brew, but it is sworn by by those who want to get a piece clean. Try doing a google on it..
Tom A.

[Sgt Art]

Ed's Red:

1 Part Dextron II or III Automatic Transmission Fluid
1 Part Kerosene
1 Part Mineral Spirits
1 Part Acetone

Optional up to 1 pound of Lanolin per US gallon
This is good for long term storage but does nothing for cleaning.

Mix all in a metal container and store that way. The acetone will destroy plastic containers. I mixed up a batch of this quite sometime ago and am still using it. It lasts a long time - has great shelf life.

The black in the bore is rust. Rust starts out orange or reddish and then turns black. Similiar to a black iron frying pan (skillet). Frankly, I wouldn't worry about trying to clean it off the barrel. I know it doesn't look as nice as a shiney new bore, but it won't hurt anything. I've seen and have some milsurp rifles and pistols that are black as mid night and pitted too that still shoot just fine. I have a 1916 dated DWM that has just a faint trace of rifling left in the bore and shoots accurately without bullet tumble and is a very reliable gun.

A great lubricant is a mix of STP (motor honey) and transmission fluid. Mix to thin out the thickness of the STP but not so much that it runs. I mixed up some of that ages ago and still have enough to last the rest of my life. It works great on all autoloading pistols. ATF (not the Feds) is high detergent it lubes and cleans! Enjoy and quit paying all that money for Hoppes and all the other stuff which is largely the same composition.

[saxman]

Ed's Red must date to the '50s or '60s, not the '30s. Automatic transmissions were not in general use until the late '50s, so there would not have been any red transmission fluid to base it on until then.

[Sgt Art]

The "recipe" is based on proven principles and incorporates two polar and two nonpolar ingredients. It is adapted from a formula in Hatcher's Notebook, Frankford Arsenal Cleaner No.18, but substituting equivalent modern materials. I had the help of an organic chemist in doing this and we knew there would be no "surprises" The original Hatcher recipe called for equal parts of acetone, turpentine, Pratts Astral Oil and sperm oil, and optionally 200 grams of lanolin added per liter.

Pratts Astral oil was nothing more than acid free, deodorized kerosene. We use K-1 kerosene of the type normally sold for indoor space heaters. An inexpensive, effective substitute for sperm oil is Dexron (II, IIe or III) automatic transmission fluid. Prior to about 1950 that most ATF's were sperm oil based, but during WWII a synthetic was developed for use in precision instruments. With the great demand for automatic transmission autos after WWII, sperm oil was no longer practical to produce ATF in the quantity demanded, so the synthetic material became the basis for the Dexron fluids we know today. The additives in ATFs which include organometallic antioxidants and surfactants, make it highly suitable for our intended purpose.

[Bernard]

As an active shooter and thus bore cleaner, here is my routine:

I use Ed's Red without the lanolin(excellent powder residue and crud remover), or one of the non-copper-remover cleaners such as Unisolv (Midway) or Kleen Bore. Then, if I shoot lead, I scrub it out. if I shoot copper, I use Butch's, Tetra or Shooter's Choice. Sweet's is too powerful for me. Whatever you use, give the stuff a little time to work. Let the chemical do its job. As an example, I never run a brush through a .22 barrel.

If the bore is really fouled with lead or copper, I get out the Outers Foul Out unit. This one really works! On a very dirty barrel, i usually clean it, use the Outers, then clean it again, use the Outers, etc. it is amazing how the powder and copper build up layer by layer.

While I use Break Free for everything, I do not like their bore cleaner.

BTW - I have an AC41 P-38 with a very poor barrel, but is is very accurate. 2.5 to 3 inches at 25 yards with any of the ammo I tried.

WD-40? Never around my guns. There is no use for that stuff on guns.

[Sgt Art]

WD-40 is great for removing sticky stickers from plastic garbage pails and that's about it, oh an it's pretty good propellent for my son's spud gun.

Is the Outers Foul Out Unit an electrical device that in a sense reverse plates the bore? I made one using batteries and a steel rod. Plug the bore and fill it (almost) with ammonia, place the steel rod in the bore making sure it doesn't ground out against the bore (I use a small piece of rubber tubing for this at the top and the bottom). Neg side on the rod, POS side on the front sight. Watch it boil. I use three batteries (4.5vdc) for about 20 minutes. All nature of crude attaches itself to the rod. BTW, stainless steel rod works best for this.

[Roadkill]

I use WD40 on the range when through with a gun. Found out they clean up a lot easier later if sprayed down with it before the dirty stuff has time to set in.

rk

[The Virginian]

Ed's Red works as well or better than anything you can buy in the small expensive bottles at the gun shop or gun show on powder fouling, grease and crud, rust to a large degree and lead fouling in my experience. I have a small dunk tank filled with the stuff and it is amazing how good guns, parts and tools that looked rusty or dirty before going into the tank end up after their soaking. I leave out the lanolin too and acetone for routine cleaning. I have some with the acetone for aggressive cleaning and also add some Mavel Mystery Oil that can be had for about $2.00 for a small bottle at the autoparts store. I can't recommend this stuff enough.