Newbie Question

alamo · 12-08-2002, 02:31 AM

I've got my grandfather's Luger that he brought back from WWII. I shot it about 10 years ago before I knew much about pistols and haven't shot it since. I really haven't done anything with it since and just take it out of the safe periodically to wipe it down.

When I was at the range, a salesman at the gunshop who seemed to be knowledgeable about Lugers inspected it and said that it looked fine but noted that the toggle (believe that's what he called it), would not lock back but it should still shoot OK. It did not lock back as a slide would nor did it on the last round. Is their a problem with my Luger or is that how they are supposed to function? I am familiar with modern semi-autos but know nothing about Lugers.

Btw, it shot high, I shot from fairly close range. Shot 50 rounds, not problems at all. I seem to recall reading a gun magazine article about Lugers and believe the article said the sites were adjusted for a certain, fairly long range and shooting high was not uncommon. Was it just my shooting or is this correct?

Thanks

Edward Tinker · 12-08-2002, 03:09 AM

Hello and welcome to the forum!

We'd like to hear or see more of your Luger?

Can you tell us any markings on the gun?

Proofs? (see on your left under tech information if you came through www.lugerforum.com) Tell us what and where proofs and markings are located.

There are forms in this section, where you can print out and then write down pertinent information.

What serial number is on the gun? To include any letters next to or under the serial number?

What year or letters are stamped on the top of the receiver?

What initials or letters are on the toggle?

Can you provide pictures, to include side, top, etc?

Generally a Luger has its own hold-open after the last shot (provided a magazine is in the gun). I know there were some made without this hold-open device, but they are fairly rare.

Mine shoots a bit high, but it depends on how you hold your sight picture.

BTW, do you know the story on your Grandfather's Luger? How it got it, where it was found, etc? Are there any other items he brought back or did he have "bring-back" paperwork?

Lonnie Zimmerman · 12-08-2002, 12:35 PM

Alamo, sounds like you have a weak magazine spring. They are available rom Wolff Gunsprings, but we need to know what markings are on the magazine before knowing what kind of spring it may need.
Lonnie

Doubs · 12-08-2002, 02:38 PM

Alamo, another possibility not mentioned is that the pistol may be pre-WW1 manufacture and not have the hold-open device installed at all. You don't mention manufacturer or the date stamped on the receiver. If your pistol does have the hold-open installed, it's likely a magazine problem... weak spring should be the first suspect and a different mag would soon show you if that's the case.

John Holbrook · 12-08-2002, 03:41 PM

The hold open device is the silver bar in the middle of the photo. When the magazine is inserted and latched or the last round is fired, the bullet follower on the mag pushes the device up and blocks the toggle in the open position.

Oops, I mean the bar that is sitting crosswise, not the safety.

So, does your Luger look like this one?

BTW, I lived in South Austin for many years in the Barton Heights area, great town!

alamo · 12-08-2002, 03:50 PM

OK, Here's what I've got.

3" barrel. Most bluing intact, some wear around the edges of a few parts.

It has DWM on top of the toggle and 55 below it. There is no marking on top just behind the barrel like in most of the logo examples.

There is a "47" on part 003 (forward link of the toggle joint?) on top of the toggle.

It says "GESICHERT" by the safety.

No markings on right side of pistol.

The proof marks on the left hand side of the Luger are found on "Proof 2" on the proof mark links.
Left to right, they are:

1) Eagle with upraised wings.
2) The first symbol on #18.
3) The 2nd symbol on #13.

On the left side of what I think is part 010, there appears to be the eagle with upraised wings.

On the metal part of the grip, it says "A.M. XIII.
5. 22."

There is a cursive "W" on the lower outer part of the trigger guard.

On the bottom of the barrel, there is "847" with a cursive "a" below it. Same "847 a" below the barrel, forward of the trigger guard (You see them when you point it directly at your face - verified it was unloaded of course!)

82 below the rear site.

Forward of the rear site there are some proof marks. First one is difficult to make out. The 2nd one is on "Proof 2" #19 - the first symbol with the "RC".
The first symbol is about twice the size of the 2nd symbol, appears to be a "crown" (the top symbol on many of the proof marks on Proof 2) as I would call it, with something below it but I can't tell what it is.

One one side of the magazine (only one mag), it looks like "fxo" with some sort of symbol below it & then "37". Also says "PO8" on the magazine.

It has a fairly worn shoulder holster with a slot for a spare magazine.

There is a "Mailing Certificate" form that says:

1. I certify that the following described articles: ("1 -ea German Luger # A.M. XIII. 5.22" written in) are bona fide gifts of a value not in excess of $50 from (space to fill - it is blank), a member of the armed forces of the United States, to (space to fill in for Consignee or Addressee, it is blank too). Sender's signature, rank, ASN, Org, APO (Signed by apparently my grandfather's CO)

2. I certify that I have personally examined the items of enemy equipment herein and that they conform to the restrictions and provisions of Sec VI, Cir 155, WD, 28 May 1945, as amended. Space for "CO's signature, Rank, branch, organization" - same person signed.

There is a round stamp next to #2 - says "Headquarters United States Forces European Theater" around the circular stamp and "Official" in the center of the stamp.

3. "I certify that this parcel contains no property of the United States Government" - followed by same signature. Various form numbers/letters at the bottom.

One box of German ammo with 12 rounds, 38 missing - says "50 Patro.."(rest covered by brown tape)

2nd line - "zur Selbstlade.." (rest covered by tape)

3rd line - ",, Parabe..."(covered by tape)

And finally by the serial number on the grip, there is my father's social security number etched on with one of those electric etching pens. Remember 20+ years ago, when the police encouraged folks to put indentifying numbers or s.s. #s on TVs & other valuables? My father took their advice to heart. He also put it on his Ithaca 1911 that he brought back from WWII.

I don't think I missed anything but I may have!

Thanks

alamo · 12-08-2002, 04:33 PM

John H.,

Thanks for that info., I'll have to wait till another day to disassemble and check it out. Wife is on me for being on the internet too long and she's got some projects for me.

I'll have to check with my dad to see if he knows specifically where my grandfather got it. He was in the signal corp in WWI and WWII. I all know is that he brought it back from the war. I doubt there is any story behind it, likely just an ordinary war souvenir.

alamo · 12-10-2002, 02:42 PM

Can anyone give me some info. about my Luger? See the description I gave about it a couple of posting up. Thanks!

12-08-2002, 12:35 PM	#3
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Alamo, sounds like you have a weak magazine spring. They are available rom Wolff Gunsprings, but we need to know what markings are on the magazine before knowing what kind of spring it may need. Lonnie __________________ Lonnie Zimmerman

12-08-2002, 03:41 PM	#5
John Holbrook RIP Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Bellingham, WA. Posts: 109 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The hold open device is the silver bar in the middle of the photo. When the magazine is inserted and latched or the last round is fired, the bullet follower on the mag pushes the device up and blocks the toggle in the open position. Oops, I mean the bar that is sitting crosswise, not the safety. So, does your Luger look like this one? BTW, I lived in South Austin for many years in the Barton Heights area, great town! __________________ "Give me a fast ship, and I will sail in harms way!", John Paul Jones

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12-08-2002, 02:31 AM	#1
alamo User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Austin, Tx Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Newbie Question I've got my grandfather's Luger that he brought back from WWII. I shot it about 10 years ago before I knew much about pistols and haven't shot it since. I really haven't done anything with it since and just take it out of the safe periodically to wipe it down. When I was at the range, a salesman at the gunshop who seemed to be knowledgeable about Lugers inspected it and said that it looked fine but noted that the toggle (believe that's what he called it), would not lock back but it should still shoot OK. It did not lock back as a slide would nor did it on the last round. Is their a problem with my Luger or is that how they are supposed to function? I am familiar with modern semi-autos but know nothing about Lugers. Btw, it shot high, I shot from fairly close range. Shot 50 rounds, not problems at all. I seem to recall reading a gun magazine article about Lugers and believe the article said the sites were adjusted for a certain, fairly long range and shooting high was not uncommon. Was it just my shooting or is this correct? Thanks

12-08-2002, 03:09 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,609 Times in 2,123 Posts	Hello and welcome to the forum! We'd like to hear or see more of your Luger? Can you tell us any markings on the gun? Proofs? (see on your left under tech information if you came through www.lugerforum.com) Tell us what and where proofs and markings are located. There are forms in this section, where you can print out and then write down pertinent information. What serial number is on the gun? To include any letters next to or under the serial number? What year or letters are stamped on the top of the receiver? What initials or letters are on the toggle? Can you provide pictures, to include side, top, etc? Generally a Luger has its own hold-open after the last shot (provided a magazine is in the gun). I know there were some made without this hold-open device, but they are fairly rare. Mine shoots a bit high, but it depends on how you hold your sight picture. BTW, do you know the story on your Grandfather's Luger? How it got it, where it was found, etc? Are there any other items he brought back or did he have "bring-back" paperwork? __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-08-2002, 02:38 PM	#4
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,743 Thanks: 828 Thanked 1,793 Times in 591 Posts	Alamo, another possibility not mentioned is that the pistol may be pre-WW1 manufacture and not have the hold-open device installed at all. You don't mention manufacturer or the date stamped on the receiver. If your pistol does have the hold-open installed, it's likely a magazine problem... weak spring should be the first suspect and a different mag would soon show you if that's the case.

12-08-2002, 03:50 PM	#6
alamo User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Austin, Tx Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	OK, Here's what I've got. 3" barrel. Most bluing intact, some wear around the edges of a few parts. It has DWM on top of the toggle and 55 below it. There is no marking on top just behind the barrel like in most of the logo examples. There is a "47" on part 003 (forward link of the toggle joint?) on top of the toggle. It says "GESICHERT" by the safety. No markings on right side of pistol. The proof marks on the left hand side of the Luger are found on "Proof 2" on the proof mark links. Left to right, they are: 1) Eagle with upraised wings. 2) The first symbol on #18. 3) The 2nd symbol on #13. On the left side of what I think is part 010, there appears to be the eagle with upraised wings. On the metal part of the grip, it says "A.M. XIII. 5. 22." There is a cursive "W" on the lower outer part of the trigger guard. On the bottom of the barrel, there is "847" with a cursive "a" below it. Same "847 a" below the barrel, forward of the trigger guard (You see them when you point it directly at your face - verified it was unloaded of course!) 82 below the rear site. Forward of the rear site there are some proof marks. First one is difficult to make out. The 2nd one is on "Proof 2" #19 - the first symbol with the "RC". The first symbol is about twice the size of the 2nd symbol, appears to be a "crown" (the top symbol on many of the proof marks on Proof 2) as I would call it, with something below it but I can't tell what it is. One one side of the magazine (only one mag), it looks like "fxo" with some sort of symbol below it & then "37". Also says "PO8" on the magazine. It has a fairly worn shoulder holster with a slot for a spare magazine. There is a "Mailing Certificate" form that says: 1. I certify that the following described articles: ("1 -ea German Luger # A.M. XIII. 5.22" written in) are bona fide gifts of a value not in excess of $50 from (space to fill - it is blank), a member of the armed forces of the United States, to (space to fill in for Consignee or Addressee, it is blank too). Sender's signature, rank, ASN, Org, APO (Signed by apparently my grandfather's CO) 2. I certify that I have personally examined the items of enemy equipment herein and that they conform to the restrictions and provisions of Sec VI, Cir 155, WD, 28 May 1945, as amended. Space for "CO's signature, Rank, branch, organization" - same person signed. There is a round stamp next to #2 - says "Headquarters United States Forces European Theater" around the circular stamp and "Official" in the center of the stamp. 3. "I certify that this parcel contains no property of the United States Government" - followed by same signature. Various form numbers/letters at the bottom. One box of German ammo with 12 rounds, 38 missing - says "50 Patro.."(rest covered by brown tape) 2nd line - "zur Selbstlade.." (rest covered by tape) 3rd line - ",, Parabe..."(covered by tape) And finally by the serial number on the grip, there is my father's social security number etched on with one of those electric etching pens. Remember 20+ years ago, when the police encouraged folks to put indentifying numbers or s.s. #s on TVs & other valuables? My father took their advice to heart. He also put it on his Ithaca 1911 that he brought back from WWII. I don't think I missed anything but I may have! Thanks

12-08-2002, 04:33 PM	#7
alamo User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Austin, Tx Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John H., Thanks for that info., I'll have to wait till another day to disassemble and check it out. Wife is on me for being on the internet too long and she's got some projects for me. I'll have to check with my dad to see if he knows specifically where my grandfather got it. He was in the signal corp in WWI and WWII. I all know is that he brought it back from the war. I doubt there is any story behind it, likely just an ordinary war souvenir.

12-10-2002, 02:42 PM	#8
alamo User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Austin, Tx Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Can anyone give me some info. about my Luger? See the description I gave about it a couple of posting up. Thanks!