Byf 41 Need help with id

devildog · 09-28-2003, 12:42 PM

I need help with identifying my luger. Its stamped byf 41 on the toggle. The serial number is 8632 and and there are other numbers stamped on it as well. Right above the trigger guard on the frame I think is a w stamp right below the 8632. There are swazitcas stamped on the frame and barrel with the number 655 underneath them. On the underside of the barrel it is stamped 883 under the serial number. This is what I think I have. I believe it is a mauser produced in 1941. From the dark finish and black grips it is a "Black Widow" type. I presume the other numbers are inspector stamps. Am I correct? And when was the gun made? Am I right to think 1941? On the web site it says the w is a walther stamp either 1939 mauser banner or 1939 S/42. What does that mean? Thank u to anyone who can help. This is my first luger and I am eager to learn as much about it as possible.

Doubs · 09-28-2003, 01:14 PM

devildog, your description is a little confusing as the toggle should only have "byf" on it and the "41" should be over the chamber. (Mauser manufacture in 1941) The serial number is "8632w" and the "w" indicates which letter block of production the pistol was made in. Each letter "block" will have 10,000 pistols in it. i.e., there were 10,000 Lugers made by Mauser in 1941 with the suffix letter "w" in the serial number. Prior to your "byf - 41" Luger in the "w" suffix block, Mauser manufactured two other "w" block series but they will be 1937 - S/42 and 1939 - 42 guns.

All small parts should have the numbers "32" stamped on them if the pistol is all matching.

The "883" under the barrel should actually be "8,83" and is the bore diameter in MM's measured from the top of one land to the top of an opposite land.

The eagles with "655" beneath them are inspection stamps. The black plastic grips, if original, do make the gun a "Black Widow" model. The "Black Widow" designation was coined by a dealer to make the guns more saleable and has, in fact, added value to the pistols.

I highly recommend Jan Still's "Third Reich Lugers" as a source of information about your particular pistol and for a better understanding of Mauser codes and production.

Please post photographs if you can.

devildog · 09-29-2003, 11:52 AM

Doubs,
Thanx for all the info about my pistol. I will try Jan Still's web page. Ill also get some pics posted as soon as I can.

Doubs · 09-29-2003, 11:59 AM

devildog, I hope I didn't mislead you. "Third Reich Lugers" is a book. Jan Still does have a web site but it's another forum devoted to the Luger as this forum is. I imagine that the majority of us on this forum also are members of Jan's site. Both are great places to learn. Jan's site is:
http://www.gunboards.com/luger/default.asp

devildog · 09-29-2003, 12:42 PM

Doubs,
Ill have to invest in that book. By the way I messed up on part of my original description of the pistol. I said the w was a walther stamp when I meant to say mauser. It is in script lettering on the frame above the trigger guard. #32 does appear on various parts of the pistol. The magazine has a black plastic bottom with an fxo stamp over an eagle with #37 under it. This appears on the lower left side of the mag. On the opposite side is PO8. I dont know whether or not it is original to the pistol. Thank you again for all your help.

integralaction · 10-01-2003, 12:14 AM

devildog,
I think your w is an extension of the serial number. Read Doubs first reply for a good description of how the letters are incorporated into the serial numbering system. Click on "Technical Information" over on the left of this page. It is a super place to start. Thanks to all who helped put it together.

You should find the #32 on virtually all parts of the pistol if all original. It is not unusual for the magazine to be mismatched, nice if it is.

All in all sounds very similar to my luger, a 41 byf #1404 u. Mine has wooden grips, are yours a black plastic? My mag has an aluminium bottom, but I believe that I have been told here that would not be an original match for the gun, at any rate the serial number is different.

MauserLugers · 10-01-2003, 12:32 AM

integralaction,
I have two byf 41's in the "u" block that both have black plastic grips and two matching fxo aluminium based numbered magazines, so at least some of the aluminium based magazines were being numbered at this time. After the "u" block seldom do you find a numbered magazine, although I do have a no suffix byf that again has two matching numbered aluminium based magazines. After the "u" block either blank aluminium or blank black plastic bases are normally found. -- Bill

integralaction · 10-01-2003, 08:31 PM

Thank you Bill,
So I may well have the "right" magazine, though not number matched. Very interesting and I appreciate it.

I can also sign my posts

Bill

10-01-2003, 12:14 AM	#6
integralaction User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	devildog, I think your w is an extension of the serial number. Read Doubs first reply for a good description of how the letters are incorporated into the serial numbering system. Click on "Technical Information" over on the left of this page. It is a super place to start. Thanks to all who helped put it together. You should find the #32 on virtually all parts of the pistol if all original. It is not unusual for the magazine to be mismatched, nice if it is. All in all sounds very similar to my luger, a 41 byf #1404 u. Mine has wooden grips, are yours a black plastic? My mag has an aluminium bottom, but I believe that I have been told here that would not be an original match for the gun, at any rate the serial number is different. __________________ integralaction

10-01-2003, 08:31 PM	#8
integralaction User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you Bill, So I may well have the "right" magazine, though not number matched. Very interesting and I appreciate it. I can also sign my posts Bill __________________ integralaction

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09-28-2003, 12:42 PM	#1
devildog New User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Byf 41 Need help with id I need help with identifying my luger. Its stamped byf 41 on the toggle. The serial number is 8632 and and there are other numbers stamped on it as well. Right above the trigger guard on the frame I think is a w stamp right below the 8632. There are swazitcas stamped on the frame and barrel with the number 655 underneath them. On the underside of the barrel it is stamped 883 under the serial number. This is what I think I have. I believe it is a mauser produced in 1941. From the dark finish and black grips it is a "Black Widow" type. I presume the other numbers are inspector stamps. Am I correct? And when was the gun made? Am I right to think 1941? On the web site it says the w is a walther stamp either 1939 mauser banner or 1939 S/42. What does that mean? Thank u to anyone who can help. This is my first luger and I am eager to learn as much about it as possible.

09-28-2003, 01:14 PM	#2
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 819 Thanked 1,769 Times in 586 Posts	devildog, your description is a little confusing as the toggle should only have "byf" on it and the "41" should be over the chamber. (Mauser manufacture in 1941) The serial number is "8632w" and the "w" indicates which letter block of production the pistol was made in. Each letter "block" will have 10,000 pistols in it. i.e., there were 10,000 Lugers made by Mauser in 1941 with the suffix letter "w" in the serial number. Prior to your "byf - 41" Luger in the "w" suffix block, Mauser manufactured two other "w" block series but they will be 1937 - S/42 and 1939 - 42 guns. All small parts should have the numbers "32" stamped on them if the pistol is all matching. The "883" under the barrel should actually be "8,83" and is the bore diameter in MM's measured from the top of one land to the top of an opposite land. The eagles with "655" beneath them are inspection stamps. The black plastic grips, if original, do make the gun a "Black Widow" model. The "Black Widow" designation was coined by a dealer to make the guns more saleable and has, in fact, added value to the pistols. I highly recommend Jan Still's "Third Reich Lugers" as a source of information about your particular pistol and for a better understanding of Mauser codes and production. Please post photographs if you can.

09-29-2003, 11:52 AM	#3
devildog New User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Doubs, Thanx for all the info about my pistol. I will try Jan Still's web page. Ill also get some pics posted as soon as I can.

09-29-2003, 11:59 AM	#4
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 819 Thanked 1,769 Times in 586 Posts	devildog, I hope I didn't mislead you. "Third Reich Lugers" is a book. Jan Still does have a web site but it's another forum devoted to the Luger as this forum is. I imagine that the majority of us on this forum also are members of Jan's site. Both are great places to learn. Jan's site is: http://www.gunboards.com/luger/default.asp

09-29-2003, 12:42 PM	#5
devildog New User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Doubs, Ill have to invest in that book. By the way I messed up on part of my original description of the pistol. I said the w was a walther stamp when I meant to say mauser. It is in script lettering on the frame above the trigger guard. #32 does appear on various parts of the pistol. The magazine has a black plastic bottom with an fxo stamp over an eagle with #37 under it. This appears on the lower left side of the mag. On the opposite side is PO8. I dont know whether or not it is original to the pistol. Thank you again for all your help.

10-01-2003, 12:32 AM	#7
MauserLugers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Philipsburg, Montana 59858 Posts: 250 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 1 Post	integralaction, I have two byf 41's in the "u" block that both have black plastic grips and two matching fxo aluminium based numbered magazines, so at least some of the aluminium based magazines were being numbered at this time. After the "u" block seldom do you find a numbered magazine, although I do have a no suffix byf that again has two matching numbered aluminium based magazines. After the "u" block either blank aluminium or blank black plastic bases are normally found. -- Bill