SS and SA Daggers ?

Pistol · 08-21-2020, 09:22 AM

A ran across a couple SA or SS daggers locally. Can someone help me determine if authentic or repo? Here are photos of the first one.

Pistol · 08-21-2020, 09:25 AM

Some more pics of #1.

Pistol · 08-21-2020, 09:37 AM

Here is #2

Pistol · 08-21-2020, 11:01 AM

I think the chain on #2 looks off.

wayne8661 · 08-21-2020, 11:26 AM

#2 is definately a repro.

#1 looks good but I would be suspect of the Himmler inscription as these are very rare and very expensive.

What is the maker on the Himmler dagger?

Schupo · 08-21-2020, 11:29 AM

The second dagger with chain appears to be a Spanish Marto reproduction from what I can see in the poor photos. It is not original which casts some doubt on the first dagger since they are together.

The first dagger fittings may be original but I am not certain about the blade etching as it looks a bit off to me from what I can see.

Pistol · 08-21-2020, 12:06 PM

They are actually not together. Two separate sellers.
Here is a photo of the maker.

Lyn Islaub · 08-21-2020, 02:08 PM

It's a fact that Carl Eickhorn made SS presentation daggers with the Himmler script, but as said above they are so very rare that you need to be a bit skeptical when ever one shows up. The second chained dagger is a poor fake.

rolandtg · 08-21-2020, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistol

Here is #2

I have one of these.
I got it at a show for about $12.00.
Made in China.

MikeP · 08-21-2020, 05:37 PM

Other than the repairs to # 1, the handle looks to be a poor fit which used to be a red flag. The eagle is boogered up as well.
They made real good copies, some from parts in the 60s 70s.
I would never personally propose to authenticate one.

sheepherder · 08-22-2020, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolandtg

I have one of these.
I got it at a show for about $12.00.
Made in China.

Aw, man! I got ripped off! I paid $17 for mine!!!

rolandtg · 08-22-2020, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Aw, man! I got ripped off! I paid $17 for mine!!!

Actually, you made me go look at mine again and it's cheesier than the one in the photo so I guess that explains the price difference.

sheepherder · 08-22-2020, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolandtg

Actually, you made me go look at mine again and it's cheesier than the one in the photo so I guess that explains the price difference.

I just dug mine out and it doesn't even have the blade inscription!!!

I feel so...violated...

schimp · 08-22-2020, 09:24 PM

Authentic Himmlers go for $15k+ so I'd post it here:
https://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/for...-weapons-forum
These folks love dissecting daggers and will give you good advice but try to get better pics of the logos. I think it's a parts dagger due to poor cross guard and eagle fittings. The Himmler side looks darker to me so maybe post war applied? And don't bother posting #2.

Sergio Natali · 08-23-2020, 11:15 AM

Obviously I can be wrong but my feeling is that both cases are reproductions, probably fairly decent ones, but I'm almost certain that are not originals.
Here, too, fake Fascist and Nazi memorabilia are quite easily found, unfortunately youngish people seem interested in them, but 95% of them are "fakes".

Mister Sunshine · 08-23-2020, 04:51 PM

I was boy there were many souvenirs around that had been brought back from Europe and the far east. At first they seemed important to the veteran and the family but after a while the novelty wore off and mothers didn't want the want the dangerous long knives and guns around. I was never able to get a pistol but I did some of the knives and bayonets from my friends. They were given to them by their older brothers. One family had a wall covered with Samurai swords and daggers. Their son was with the first troops to go into Japan as occupiers. A younger brother cut his arm while playing with a Naval dirk. It looked for a while that he might loose the arm but he didn't. Theer was a fortune hanging on that wall. I hope they realized that in time. The family moved to Texas shortly after the war so I never heard what happened to all the weapons. I was able to trade a friend out of a beautiful German dress or parade bayonet. When I was a boy I loved throwing knives before that bayonet didn't have a handle. The blade never broke but it did make a very loud Prang when it hit side ways. I also collected shoulder patches and had a shoe box full. I am too embarrassed to tell what I did with those. In the 1960s I became interested in collecting German insignia and metals of any kind and so did thousands of other people. Well the Germans were more than willing to oblige. They made more of that stuff after the war than they did before and during. I did get a beautiful metal that was given to a Spanish soldier who fought on the Russian front. That guy must have done something big to get a metal like that. It was cast of silver and had the Russian double eagle on one side with an Iron cross on the eagle's breast with a swastika in the middle of the cross. on the other side it had depiction of Moscow. It even said Moscow on that side. Sadly I sold that too.

Pistol · 08-25-2020, 09:48 PM

Update: three well known collectors confirmed the first one is real. It sold for around $8k at a local auction........which I wad told was a "bargain". I got out of the way well before $8k due to the uncertainty. Plus, I would rather collect guns than blades.

08-21-2020, 11:29 AM	#6
Schupo User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kansas City Metro Posts: 206 Thanks: 1 Thanked 102 Times in 47 Posts	The second dagger with chain appears to be a Spanish Marto reproduction from what I can see in the poor photos. It is not original which casts some doubt on the first dagger since they are together. The first dagger fittings may be original but I am not certain about the blade etching as it looks a bit off to me from what I can see. __________________ "You can't please everyone, so you have got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

08-23-2020, 11:15 AM	#15
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Obviously I can be wrong but my feeling is that both cases are reproductions, probably fairly decent ones, but I'm almost certain that are not originals. Here, too, fake Fascist and Nazi memorabilia are quite easily found, unfortunately youngish people seem interested in them, but 95% of them are "fakes". __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

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08-21-2020, 11:01 AM	#4
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA - TN Posts: 435 Thanks: 469 Thanked 223 Times in 102 Posts	I think the chain on #2 looks off.

08-21-2020, 11:26 AM	#5
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 611 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	#2 is definately a repro. #1 looks good but I would be suspect of the Himmler inscription as these are very rare and very expensive. What is the maker on the Himmler dagger?

08-21-2020, 02:08 PM	#8
Lyn Islaub Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 435 Thanks: 3 Thanked 152 Times in 72 Posts	It's a fact that Carl Eickhorn made SS presentation daggers with the Himmler script, but as said above they are so very rare that you need to be a bit skeptical when ever one shows up. The second chained dagger is a poor fake.

08-21-2020, 05:37 PM	#10
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	Other than the repairs to # 1, the handle looks to be a poor fit which used to be a red flag. The eagle is boogered up as well. They made real good copies, some from parts in the 60s 70s. I would never personally propose to authenticate one.

08-22-2020, 09:24 PM	#14
schimp New User Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 4 Thanks: 2 Thanked 20 Times in 3 Posts	Authentic Himmlers go for $15k+ so I'd post it here: https://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/for...-weapons-forum These folks love dissecting daggers and will give you good advice but try to get better pics of the logos. I think it's a parts dagger due to poor cross guard and eagle fittings. The Himmler side looks darker to me so maybe post war applied? And don't bother posting #2.

08-23-2020, 04:51 PM	#16
Mister Sunshine User Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Cherry Valley, Ca. Posts: 94 Thanks: 0 Thanked 29 Times in 20 Posts	I was boy there were many souvenirs around that had been brought back from Europe and the far east. At first they seemed important to the veteran and the family but after a while the novelty wore off and mothers didn't want the want the dangerous long knives and guns around. I was never able to get a pistol but I did some of the knives and bayonets from my friends. They were given to them by their older brothers. One family had a wall covered with Samurai swords and daggers. Their son was with the first troops to go into Japan as occupiers. A younger brother cut his arm while playing with a Naval dirk. It looked for a while that he might loose the arm but he didn't. Theer was a fortune hanging on that wall. I hope they realized that in time. The family moved to Texas shortly after the war so I never heard what happened to all the weapons. I was able to trade a friend out of a beautiful German dress or parade bayonet. When I was a boy I loved throwing knives before that bayonet didn't have a handle. The blade never broke but it did make a very loud Prang when it hit side ways. I also collected shoulder patches and had a shoe box full. I am too embarrassed to tell what I did with those. In the 1960s I became interested in collecting German insignia and metals of any kind and so did thousands of other people. Well the Germans were more than willing to oblige. They made more of that stuff after the war than they did before and during. I did get a beautiful metal that was given to a Spanish soldier who fought on the Russian front. That guy must have done something big to get a metal like that. It was cast of silver and had the Russian double eagle on one side with an Iron cross on the eagle's breast with a swastika in the middle of the cross. on the other side it had depiction of Moscow. It even said Moscow on that side. Sadly I sold that too.

08-25-2020, 09:48 PM	#17
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA - TN Posts: 435 Thanks: 469 Thanked 223 Times in 102 Posts	Update: three well known collectors confirmed the first one is real. It sold for around $8k at a local auction........which I wad told was a "bargain". I got out of the way well before $8k due to the uncertainty. Plus, I would rather collect guns than blades.