barrel relining service?

G.T. · 10-27-2019, 01:01 PM

Great input Joe and Rich! I've been working with Don on this and it looks like we are going forward with the attempt anyway... Here is how I see your concerns, and how we plan to overcome the possible issues noted?
First, our liners will be .500" dia. at the chamber, and progressively reduced or stepped down as we get toward the muzzle.
Second, although .0015" sounds like a lot of clearance, and it might be over the thickness of a washer, but over approximately 5" it is pretty tight? Also, a glue starved bond is possible with an overtight fit?
Third, the shrink fit would be great, especially for a production set up and perfect & clean, 100% concentric parts, our repairs will not quite reach this level of sophistication? Plus, the shrink fit is a one shot deal... No second chance.
fourth, I think the concentricity appearance can be achieved by drilling or reaming from both ends, muzzle end first, chamber end until break thru, then reamers from there on out?.
Fifth, Loctite will be easy to work with, and also permanent! And still resist heat well past high 300 F.
Please note, one thru five are starting points, we are thankful for the suggestions and direction replies from our machinist brothers! Our full circle journey may end us up, right back to the members suggestions noted above...

More soon, best to all, til….lat'r....GT

G.T. · 10-27-2019, 01:05 PM

Hi Rich and Joe, almost forgot! The P1 liner creep is very interesting, I never ever considered using a straight liner, but it is good to know what didn't work out for them on a pretty large effort? Thanks for all, best to you both, til...lat'r...GT

sheepherder · 10-27-2019, 01:47 PM

You might want to consider silver soldering. The entire liner does not need to be soldered, just one end. For a short distance. Don't use anything from Brownell's; get the real thing from your local welding supply. True silver solder is expensive but also low temp and uses special flux. The metal never even darkens.

I've used stippling, threading, and heat shrinking/freezing on the P1 barrel liners. Pinning turned out the most feasible.

I never bothered with trying to re-line Luger barrels. Why bother when you can buy brand new barrels completely machined??? Collectors don't want re-lined Lugers. There's just no profit in it.

Mister Sunshine · 10-27-2019, 02:18 PM

A friend of mine wanted to make a target pistol out of a replica of the Remington 1858 cap & ball revolver. He found that the little cadet 310 Martini had the right size bore and twist and were plentiful in gun shops because so many had been converted to 357s and a #001 buckshot worked perfectly. He drilled out the barrel on the pistol and turned down the Martini barrel to match put Lock-Tite on it and pressed it in the revolver barrel, let it set over nite and he found he couldn't turn it with a pipe wrench. He had left a short piece of the insert for the test. Ho could get two pistol barrels out of one 310 barrel. He made up several and none ever shot loose. He was a great pistol shot and difficult to beat . I never did.

calibrator · 10-27-2019, 03:10 PM

Hey Friend,

When you speak of a clearance of .0015", than is the clearance I hone an exhaust valve guide to in relation to the valve stem dia.

There is a perceptible wobble of the valve when inserted into the guide. I don't think that is what you want. Using anything other than oil when pressing in a valve guide is frowned upon by "Experts" because it will hinder heat transfer from the guide into the head for dissipation.

If you use Loctite on a press fit, you better be pressing it together fast, because even a pause of a few seconds can allow the anaerobic to start and it will seize up.

Drill bits wander, even drilling an existing hole, especially over a distance of several inches. Forget about drilling from both ends, meeting in the middle, DOH !

Look at a "Piloted Core Drill Bit";

http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/33-pi...-drills-nopix-

The above is only an example (the 1st image I could access). It will faithfully follow the existing bore if you can get a proper sized pilot tip. There are some that will have a 90 degree cutting edge that would allow you to leave a square shelf as a stop at the muzzle end if you halted .060-.090" shy of breaking through. The ID of the hole left by the core drill determines the OD of your new barrel blank. Drill 1st, then size the barrel blank accordingly.

The Silver Solder is a good idea, because it would not be as notable as a step or a pin.

10-27-2019, 01:01 PM	#1
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,541 Thanks: 1,342 Thanked 3,743 Times in 1,020 Posts	Good comments! Great input Joe and Rich! I've been working with Don on this and it looks like we are going forward with the attempt anyway... Here is how I see your concerns, and how we plan to overcome the possible issues noted? First, our liners will be .500" dia. at the chamber, and progressively reduced or stepped down as we get toward the muzzle. Second, although .0015" sounds like a lot of clearance, and it might be over the thickness of a washer, but over approximately 5" it is pretty tight? Also, a glue starved bond is possible with an overtight fit? Third, the shrink fit would be great, especially for a production set up and perfect & clean, 100% concentric parts, our repairs will not quite reach this level of sophistication? Plus, the shrink fit is a one shot deal... No second chance. fourth, I think the concentricity appearance can be achieved by drilling or reaming from both ends, muzzle end first, chamber end until break thru, then reamers from there on out?. Fifth, Loctite will be easy to work with, and also permanent! And still resist heat well past high 300 F. Please note, one thru five are starting points, we are thankful for the suggestions and direction replies from our machinist brothers! Our full circle journey may end us up, right back to the members suggestions noted above... More soon, best to all, til….lat'r....GT

10-27-2019, 01:05 PM	#2
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,541 Thanks: 1,342 Thanked 3,743 Times in 1,020 Posts	Liner creep! Hi Rich and Joe, almost forgot! The P1 liner creep is very interesting, I never ever considered using a straight liner, but it is good to know what didn't work out for them on a pretty large effort? Thanks for all, best to you both, til...lat'r...GT

10-27-2019, 01:47 PM	#3
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,208 Thanks: 1,425 Thanked 4,474 Times in 2,343 Posts	You might want to consider silver soldering. The entire liner does not need to be soldered, just one end. For a short distance. Don't use anything from Brownell's; get the real thing from your local welding supply. True silver solder is expensive but also low temp and uses special flux. The metal never even darkens. I've used stippling, threading, and heat shrinking/freezing on the P1 barrel liners. Pinning turned out the most feasible. I never bothered with trying to re-line Luger barrels. Why bother when you can buy brand new barrels completely machined??? Collectors don't want re-lined Lugers. There's just no profit in it. __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

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10-27-2019, 02:18 PM	#4
Mister Sunshine User Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Cherry Valley, Ca. Posts: 94 Thanks: 0 Thanked 29 Times in 20 Posts	A friend of mine wanted to make a target pistol out of a replica of the Remington 1858 cap & ball revolver. He found that the little cadet 310 Martini had the right size bore and twist and were plentiful in gun shops because so many had been converted to 357s and a #001 buckshot worked perfectly. He drilled out the barrel on the pistol and turned down the Martini barrel to match put Lock-Tite on it and pressed it in the revolver barrel, let it set over nite and he found he couldn't turn it with a pipe wrench. He had left a short piece of the insert for the test. Ho could get two pistol barrels out of one 310 barrel. He made up several and none ever shot loose. He was a great pistol shot and difficult to beat . I never did.

10-27-2019, 03:10 PM	#5
calibrator User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cave Creek Posts: 340 Thanks: 67 Thanked 271 Times in 108 Posts	Hey Friend, When you speak of a clearance of .0015", than is the clearance I hone an exhaust valve guide to in relation to the valve stem dia. There is a perceptible wobble of the valve when inserted into the guide. I don't think that is what you want. Using anything other than oil when pressing in a valve guide is frowned upon by "Experts" because it will hinder heat transfer from the guide into the head for dissipation. If you use Loctite on a press fit, you better be pressing it together fast, because even a pause of a few seconds can allow the anaerobic to start and it will seize up. Drill bits wander, even drilling an existing hole, especially over a distance of several inches. Forget about drilling from both ends, meeting in the middle, DOH ! Look at a "Piloted Core Drill Bit"; http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/33-pi...-drills-nopix- The above is only an example (the 1st image I could access). It will faithfully follow the existing bore if you can get a proper sized pilot tip. There are some that will have a 90 degree cutting edge that would allow you to leave a square shelf as a stop at the muzzle end if you halted .060-.090" shy of breaking through. The ID of the hole left by the core drill determines the OD of your new barrel blank. Drill 1st, then size the barrel blank accordingly. The Silver Solder is a good idea, because it would not be as notable as a step or a pin.