9mm ammo

[Vlim]

Actually it's not far from the truth. A few AR style rifles were found in IS territory, but these were mostly show guns for high ranking officers, as they hardly had .223 available.

The Russian ammo was there in abundance, however... even commercial packaged AK ammo from Barnauld and the likes.

The fact that the Russian gov't loaned anti aircraft missiles to Ukrainian insurgents who used one to shoot down a Malaysian airliner filled with mostly Dutch holidaymakers and tried to cover this up, rather than accept responsibility for it, doesn't help either.

[flydive]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

That't a joke, right?

More a bit of sarcasm than a joke.

But Vlim really seems to believe it

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by 4 Scale

If the round chambers correctly and the specs are correct I can't see how this would damage a Luger.

4 Scale,

You assume that the specs are correct for a Luger.

Probably (most likely) not.

Hot ammo causes breach block slap in Lugers, eventually beating the pistol to destruction.


Sieger

[4 Scale]

Originally Posted by Sieger

4 Scale,

You assume that the specs are correct for a Luger.

Probably (most likely) not.

Hot ammo causes breach block slap in Lugers, eventually beating the pistol to destruction.


Sieger

Oh, I don't assume that. I've had issues with Russian quality in the past in non-firearm areas which makes me wary. I appreciate David sharing his results and wish him well with this ammo but I don't plan to use it myself.

[Vlim]

Both options were developed. The hand reamer was meant for modifications of existing pistols, while the removal of the step in new pistols was just a minor change in production steps.

The hand reamer was also used to test the effectiveness of the modification.

About steel cases, I think the old lacquer coating did more harm than the steel case itself.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by Vlim

Both options were developed. The hand reamer was meant for modifications of existing pistols, while the removal of the step in new pistols was just a minor change in production steps.

The hand reamer was also used to test the effectiveness of the modification.

About steel cases, I think the old lacquer coating did more harm than the steel case itself.

Vlim,

Thanks!!

I knew that you would know!!!


Sieger

[rhuff]

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Just bought a case of this stuff and tried some out at the range. Only fired 15 rounds thru my 1936 P08 shooter, but got perfect function and better accuracy than I deserve. No problems in the other three 9's I tried either.

https://www.sgammo.com/product/barna...ox-lacquered-s

David,

I have purchased a fair amount of ammo from SGAMMO, and have been happy with their operation. Only 1-2 weeks ago, SGAMMO had a two(2) day only sale on PMC 115gr FMJ 9mm ammo, and I couldn't pass it up. This ammo works great in my Lugers and one other ammo sensitive weapon. Glad to hear that your purchase has been a success for you in your weapons.....always a nice feeling to make a good choice!! The price was certainly attractive, and would be popular for 9mm "buzz gun" owners.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by rhuff

David,

I have purchased a fair amount of ammo from SGAMMO, and have been happy with their operation. Only 1-2 weeks ago, SGAMMO had a two(2) day only sale on PMC 115gr FMJ 9mm ammo, and I couldn't pass it up. This ammo works great in my Lugers and one other ammo sensitive weapon. Glad to hear that your purchase has been a success for you in your weapons.....always a nice feeling to make a good choice!! The price was certainly attractive, and would be popular for 9mm "buzz gun" owners.

rhuff,

PMC ammo does not have steel cases and they have advanced quality control.

I've shot quite a bit of their ammo over the years, but have experienced some jamming in my Lugers.


Sieger

[DavidJayUden]

I can't really reload FMJ ammo for that price.
It's a win-win.

[Sieger]

Vlim,

As always, very informative!!!

Thanks!!!


Sieger

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Just bought a case of this stuff and tried some out at the range. Only fired 15 rounds thru my 1936 P08 shooter, but got perfect function and better accuracy than I deserve. No problems in the other three 9's I tried either.

https://www.sgammo.com/product/barna...ox-lacquered-s

David,

Is 15 rounds a realistic test set?

On the other hand, if it's only a shooter and not a collector grade Luger, perhaps your reasoning is correct!


Sieger

[DavidJayUden]

I'll take both the Russian stuff and some Winchester white box along with a roll of masking tape the next time I go to the range. It will be very unscientific but I'll try to determine if one or the other flattens the tape more violently. 2 or 3 layers of tape across the contact points on the back?
dju

[ithacaartist]

One layer should do it.

[DavidJayUden]

Regarding the toggle slap question of the Russian ammo vs. Winchester White Box, a trip to the shooting range this morning yielded unclear results. The degree of damage to the various strips of blue masking tape is very hard to read as it was fairly minor, the damage is inconsistent from one test group to the next, and I noticed that I was damaging the tape simply by loading the pistol from an empty chamber/lowered toggle attitude.
So the results are inconclusive, yet at the same time are conclusive enough for me, at least, to be comfortable occasionally using the steel cased Russian ammo in the Luger.
Test gun was a 1936 model, nearly matching and normally a good functioning gun. Of course a "G. T. special" mag. was used...
Tape is grouped by the ammo used and the damaged areas are along the upper edges. The left strip is after 2 shots, the center and right strips are both after 5 shots. The last pair is using reloaded 115 gs. cast bullets driven by 4.7 grains of Unique, and probably shows the least damage of all.
Sorry that it is both inconclusive and unscientific, but for me, at least, it's good enough for government work.
dju

[DonVoigt]

DJU,
you are a very patient guy.
Thanks for the effort and the report.

I see nothing to make me have concern over the Russian ammo over any of the others.
And I can add, I've seen much worse test tapes from WWB, so I think your mainspring is in good shape.

As was said above , toggle "rub" or "slap" is a feature of the luger design for sure; and the condition of the mainspring also affects the apparent "rub".

[rhuff]

David,

Thanx for your time, effort and ammo to show the forum your results. From what I can see, I would have no qualms about shooting the Russian ammo. Keep and eye on your extractor claw and chamber, but we all do that anyway. Nice visual.

[HerbZ]

What are the original German cartridge specs for a WW II P.08?

[Sieger]

Herb,

As taken from multiple original German texts of both WWI and WWII, as well as, commercial texts of that period, German Army ammo was standardized at:

123 grain bullet (either truncated cone or the later round nose) at a velocity of 1,076 fps.

Current 124 grain NATO Spec. 9mm is much hotter, ranging as high as 1,261, as fired through a 4.5 inch pistol barrel (an approximate 17% overload as compared to the original German Army loading above).

Shoot modern 9mm NATO ammo through your Luger at your own risk!


Sieger

[DonVoigt]

We've been down this road before; all "Nato" 9mm P is not loaded to 1,261 fps- though that may be the specification.

You can probably find the old threads by searching for "Nato" .

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

We've been down this road before; all "Nato" 9mm P is not loaded to 1,261 fps- though that may be the specification.

You can probably find the old threads by searching for "Nato" .

Don,

Than why don't you test it all and tell us what is and what is not, rather than just guessing!

Why of course not, as that would be impossible, now wouldn't it.


Sieger