Stoeger Luger 22 LR steel frame.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by Kyrie

Yes sir, about what I expected.

The reason I asked is this is an ERMA design but that design was used by a number of different makers to produce these pistols. I don’t know who did the guns for Stoeger, but suspect it was ERMA. The good news on these pistols is they are fairly cheap to buy. The bad news is they were generally well made but used poor materials. The (not funny) joke is there are two kinds of owners of these .22 rimfire “Lugers”; owners looking for parts and owners who will be looking for parts.

Back roughly 1960 - 1980 ERMA designed, produced, and licensed the production of .22 rimfire versions of the M1 carbine, Walther PPK, and Luger. This gun is an example of the .22 Luger design.

Here is another one, made and sold by ERMA as the model La22:





This example went to the Proof House in West Germany in 1966:



The Spanish gun maker Echave y Arizmendi also produced .22 Lugers using the ERMA design. These are rarely seen here in the USA, but I’m a Spanish gun guy, so:







This gun was run through the Eibar proof house in 1968 (proof year code N*1):



The Lur, like the La22, was well made but of poor materials.

Hope this is of some interest.

Kyrie

Well...sort of. The Erma La-22 mad its debut in 1964. It was superseded a couple of years later by the Ep-22, which had a re-designed firing systen--all the way from the trigger to the sear and breech block interface. There was overlap of the models. The Et-22 ("Marine Model") is an Et-22 with 11 3/4" bbl. and checkered walnut fore-stock.

It is not correct to say the design was used by different makers. A Stoeger is a Stoeeger, and an Erma is an Erma. What all these share is the concept--toggle action pistol. The Stoeger is American made, and its action--aside from a toggle that jumps up and down--isn't similar in any other particular way. The exception is the Spanish Lur, which was produced from the same tooling, purchased from Erma after they phased out the La-22; so it is no wonder that the two appear identical--they are!

Erma came out with the KGP 69 (.22 lr) in 1969 and the KGP 68A the year thereafter. The KGP series consisted of scaled-down versions, compared to a P.08 and the earlier two Erma models (and the Stoeger .22 Luger)--which mimic the weight and dimensions of the P.08. The KGP 69 is about 80%, KGP 68A about 70% size/wt. of the original Parabellum. What is curious is that the larger calibers of .32 auto and .380 are found in the smaller of those two pistols.

The KGP series lasted until Erma gave up the ghost in the late 80s. One of their last importers was Beeman Arms, which was branded for Beeman right in the frames' castings.

The early, full-size models were constructed almost entirely of cast Zamak, a zinc alloy containing aluminum, magnesium, and copper. With the exception of the steel internals, breech block, and barrel liner, the pistols are entirely pot metal.

The later KGP series, however, are somewhat the reverse, with only the grip frame and trigger that consist of the cast alloy.

The weakness or vulnerability of any of them will only show up if they're dropped on a hard surface, at which point they can break. The early, cast front toggle links will also wind up in three pieces if hyper-velocity ammo is used, such as Stingers or Velocitors, which are too energetic for the action to handle.

My friend, Holger Schlemeier of Belgium, is in the midst of having his book about Erma's history and products printed as I type. The German version will come out first, followed, as is the plan, by the English version somewhat later.

My collection includes perhaps a dozen Erma toggle pistols, with all variations represented at least once. Pursuing this interest, I wound up with a collection of factory parts which are listed on Gunbroker for sale. With a couple of notable exceptions, I would have just about anything someone with one might need--even the Lur, which is an La-22 aside from its markings. BTW, the Lur pictured was made in 1968, as signified by the N*1 Spanish date code on it. (I have several small frame Llamas, too.)

Sub-caliber, Luger-styled toggle pistols seem to be collecting as many rumors and misinterpretations hovering around them as our real Lugers!