Rifling Question??

[cirelaw]

Does rifling become less effective with repeated use? Do barrels wear out or become less effective over time!! Eric

[mrerick]

Yes - the rifling does eventually wear out. So do the chambers.

They are measured in terms of rifling width (muzzle gauge) and throat erosion (chamber).

It usually takes many thousands of rounds.

Much more damage is done by improper cleaning and historically through corrosive primers in ammunition.

[DavidJayUden]

Steel cleaning rods and cleaning a rifle or pistol from the muzzle end hastens their demise. Combine that with corrosive primers and infrequent cleaning, as well as excessive heat (machine gun barrels) and the lifespan can be quite short.
dju

[cirelaw]

Thank You Both!!! I will throw out the brass attachment!!!

[Rick W.]

To me, the chamber throat and the crown are always subject to wear from various things. The guys have given pretty good senerios of what will get these two areas.

Heat, rust, scraping with hard metal objects is not good for a bore. Typically barrels are fairly soft in makeup. A bit of exception to the relative softness of barrel, is the LW brand that is considerably harder.

Hot rounds(mainly rifle types) that have a lot of powder capacity for bore size, will kill a rifle throat in a few hundred rounds, especially if shot repeatly, quickly, and get the barrel overly hot. The 22-06 comes to mind in that regard.

Some folks will use a bore guide that keeps the rod off the throat, and environment dictates that design of said guide. I prefer a coated rod myself, but others are ok; if used with a proper guide.

One thing about a bore guide, if the brush will go thru it, that guide really is useless. A brushing guide should in my opinion have a brush release area, and closely fit the cleaning rod of the day. Cleaning from the crown side is more critical than from the chamber side to me. Obviously machining the guide concentric to the bore has its challenges, as does the methods of applying the guide to the firearm, especially if muzzle first.

Sometimes if one uses a brush on a rod to clean the barrel from the breech, once the brush gets thru the crown area, the rod drops down on the crown, then the rough edge of the rod/brush interface bumps over the crown on the backstroke and dings that crown that someone spent hours on cutting. Some benchresters will remove the brush or jag on the backstroke, painful but they feel necessary in their game.

[cirelaw]

Now I am really scared. What is the suggested and proper way to clean a luger barrel?? What tool should I use. I have used WD-40 for years. Lets set the record straight for old and young alike~ Pretty Please!!! And the maintenance, I want to preserve my 1902 Fat Barrel for prosperity, never fire~ Preservation! Any Suggestions/hints? Eric

[wlyon]

Personally I ,would never use WD40 on firearms. It's fine for garage doors and rusted metal not firearms. I use 3 in 1 oil. Any light machine oil is fine. I do not shoot my collectible lugers. I store them open with a good coating of oil inside and out. I give them a good cleaning once a year. With no use they really don't need this but it's fun to look them over. I have been using 3 in 1 oil for lugers and many other firearms for over 65 years with no problems. I am sure we all have our own way to maintain our firearms. If it has worked for years keep it up. However, to me, some products should be avoided. WD40 is one of them. Bill

[DavidJayUden]

Interesting question Eric. To me an unfired Luger only needs to be wiped off with a lightly oiled rag every now and then, probably annually unless you are in high humidity. I'd push a well oiled patch down the barrel every few years. To me excessive disassembly probably creates more hazards than it fixes. I'd not hesitate to use an aluminum cleaning rod from the muzzle, but carefully and maybe with a bore guide. One pass or 2 should do it.
Of course you being in Florida may create cleaning needs that I am overlooking.
I agree with Bill on WD-40. It's not the Devil's potion as some claim, but there are better oils out there.

dju

[cirelaw]

How about Rem=Oil?? PS Debbie says she kick my butt if I ever take even a grip off! I shattered my 1920 carbine foward grip, rolled over and compressed 2 luger grip in my recliner!!! Broke of grip screws! I keep GT very busy! Shes tired of writing checks! She hid the screwdriver but theres loads of butter knives!!!

[DavidJayUden]

Rem-Oil is a good choice in moderation, IMHO.
Debbie probably has the right idea...
dju

[ithacaartist]

Eric,

First, I'd caution anybody to be careful of the grips, whatever secret formula is used!

Rem Oil falls into the category of "any light oil," as Bill suggested. I clean my shooters' barrels with Hoppe's #9, the old classic, a brass brush, and aluminum rod, but taking care not to allow the rod or brush fitting to be banging around against anything. I use the same solvent during the eventual detail-strip cleaning of any used pistol I acquire. Once clean, I apply a drop of 10 wt. oil or spray with Rem Oil and wipe to remove the excess, leaving a light sheen of oil on all surfaces of every part. When reassembling, put 1 drop of light oil on each pivot, axle, or rotating shaft as you go. I have a small paintbrush I use to apply dark lithium grease to the rails and grooves in the upper, and whatever slides in relation to it. The brush leaves a light coating.

I don't usually use gloves when I take a gun out for some lovin', but I am careful to wipe it down with a silicone impregnated gun cloth or a Clean terrycloth misted with some Rem Oil before I return them to the lockup. This removes the fingerprint residue and spreads a nice protective coating. If you apply and buff a round of Renaissance Wax, you're doing the equivalent, plus no worries about the grips. My opinion about thorough cleaning is that once it's done, there's no need do it again unless something nullifies or overcomes the protection established by the last cleaning. I'd lobby Debbie to allow perhaps an annual removal of the grips, for inspection. Wood is porous and can absorb some of the protection, worst case some rust can get going where they touch. If you waxed underneath, I think that would be fairly durable protection.

The scoop on WD40 is that its name itself was derived from its designed purpose--to displace water. I think the problem with its formula and firearms is that a gummy residue that remains after the volatiles have evaporated, which will build up with repeated applications. It would be perfectly fine as a stop-gap, to thoroughly spray down (after removing wood grips) a gun if it, say, fell into the sink accidentally, until it could be properly cleaned.

[cirelaw]

Thank you Dave. I learned the hard way that wood/grips do shrink!!! Any suggestions on safe removal of grips and best preventive treatment. I'm going to ask my warden to order another tin of Renaissance. Do you agree!

[Bill_in_VA]

I don't know if I'd put Ren Wax on wood grips. Wood needs to breathe and I think Ren Wax would likely seal the pores. Then again, I can't see any reason to continually remove grips. Pull 'em once, maybe lightly oil the frame behind the grips, photo the numbers on the grips, and then reinstall and leave alone.

[Rick W.]

A friend sent me a couple of rods, cleaning materials from Germany some 10 years ago. No real idea about these things but was interesting about the type of patch material he sent along with the rods. I noted a type of appliance with the rods, but again; no real information about them. Was mightly glad to get a gift from a dear friend; never will be sold. Some discussions have taken place on this forum about appliances over the rod etc, but will leave such to the reader.



We tend to think collectors are fairly fussy about their care of their Lugers. In the shooting world there are those that are just as fussy about what goes down the bore of their firearms, hence the heavy care during cleaning.

Environment/final requirement is really everything. The Luger was a war time weapon, and was treated as such. Clean for function was about it I think during the conflicts. Today the collectors of such and heavy shooters of such treat the same weapons with kid gloves. Kinda interesting really, but passes the time huh?

There are two piece bore guides on the market today that really attempt to hold the rod in line in the bore precisely as possible. I really suspect that Luger guides that do any good are home brew; doubt if there are any oem ones around.

There are brass inserts that go over the rod that are intended to save the crown. A bit of common sense should really come into play when brushing the bore, try to keep the rod centered in the bore and off the bore as much as possible. A guide in a Luger environment to most is overkill, to others; may not. Everyone has to figure what they want to do in a lot of things on their own.

One might note that some bore cleaners will remove blue. Others are more friendly to surfaces. I am sure that the collector side of the group will use the mildest cleaners fore and aft that are available.

A typical chamber for an ots firearm is probably reamed in less than 5 seconds. Some benchresters will take perhaps a half a day just to line up the bore to the axis of the lathe, but they deal in ten thousanths, and realize that no barrel or bore is straight. They feel that such are really necessary when the different between 1th and 50th is such a small dimension.

Some carry their taught requirements to all of their weapons across the board, some think it is nuts really. Just boils down to what you think is appropriate for ..........you and let the others banter all they want.

Common sense and a little care will go a long ways in retaining accuracy and beauty of a firearm.

[DonVoigt]

Rick W.,
I curious as to what bore cleaner will remove blue. I have not run into it yet.
Name(s)?

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by cirelaw

Now I am really scared. What is the suggested and proper way to clean a luger barrel?? What tool should I use. I have used WD-40 for years. Lets set the record straight for old and young alike~ Pretty Please!!! And the maintenance, I want to preserve my 1902 Fat Barrel for prosperity, never fire~ Preservation! Any Suggestions/hints? Eric

If the bore is clean and shiny already , and not ever fired, just run a swab of light oil in there and stop worrying.

[cirelaw]

I have only fired one, my 1914 DWM Artillery. What a rush! I under estimated the kick! Since then George sold me a beautiful shooter and admonished me. I had to lose my luger cherry!!I had to to do it although I own 2 others! It definitly was battle worn and I figued a few rounds wouldn't hurt!! I've never fired my carbine! The longer the barrel, the more kick??? Is it my imagination? God, I Luv Lugers!!!! Eric

[DonVoigt]

Your imagination, if anything the recoil of an artillery would be slightly less.

[Ron Wood]

Originally Posted by Rick W.

...Common sense and a little care will go a long ways in retaining accuracy and beauty of a firearm.

Amen! Nice looking accessories. Some sources I have seen indicate that the material for cleaning that your friend sent you is raw flax fiber. I have no idea if that is the case but it certainly looks that way.
Ron

[Rick W.]

Ron,

Thank you for the kind comment on the pict. It has been a good while since I remember taking that shot.

My friend was/is pretty heavy into the Luger world, especially from an historical perspective; I miss his guidance and counsel on a lot of things.

Your comment I believe is correct on the fiber, has been a long time now and I had sadly forgotten it. I know he told me in great detail about the other items, I believe he made the lanyard himself; guess my comment on no information, was just that I could not remember the details.

regards,

Rick W.