I was naughty today and i liked it :-)

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by mrerick

I just think when you experiment with those pressures, you should be measuring things.

Actually, it is not that expensive, and much less costly than medical bills...

The latest has a Bluetooth interface available to the PC. The entire package is about $900 shipped.

https://www.shootingsoftware.com/index.htm

When I teach reloading, I make the point that the reloading manuals are not recipe books giving you guidance on working up a load. They are documentation of the results of experiments using specific components and conditions.

They document the safe range of a specific powder, bullet, case, barrel and primer which will predictably operate within SAAMI specifications.

Anything else is an experiment. I don't know about you, but I don't like to experiment with pressures ranging from 40,000 to 75,000 PSI without the proper instrumentation.

While black powder in a revolver is not likely to detonate, I'm not exactly sure what the recoil forces and abrupt slamming of a cartridge into the chamber would do to a chemical that could potentially detonate.

This is one reason that the world had to wait for Smokeless Powder (a fast burning chemical propellant) instead of Black Powder (an explosive that can detonate from physical pressure) for the development of semi-automatic firearms.

I guess that you can take this as my opinion that substituting black powder for smokeless powder in a modern semi-automatic handgun is not a very good idea. While some have done it without injury, I would never attempt to do it.

I'm also not comfortable with using other people's reloads...

Marc

One thing I can say. The original .45Colt was 40 gr blackpowder behind a 250gr bullet. The pressure was in the vicinity of 12 000 C.U.P., and you can't put half of that amount in a .45 ACP case. Only possible source of problem is if there was empty space behind the bullet.

[mrerick]

Originally Posted by kurusu

One thing I can say. The original .45Colt was 40 gr blackpowder behind a 250gr bullet. The pressure was in the vicinity of 12 000 C.U.P., and you can't put half of that amount in a .45 ACP case. Only possible source of problem is if there was empty space behind the bullet.

Mario,

CUP (copper crush) pressures can't be related to PSI strain gauge measured pressures. The relationship between them is not linear.

in studying Mauser's work (actually Feederle's design) on the C96 Broomhandle pistol for the Mauser Archive book Mauro and Gerben just finished, I realized that he could did not proceed on it's design until he had smokeless powder from Max Duttenhofer's powder mill in Rottweil. (1884)

The difference is that in single shot firearms and revolvers, you don't have the violent recoil movement of the action against hard stop parts during cycling, and the force that slamming the cartridge into the chamber in a semi-auto represents. That generates pressure waves within the cartridge itself.

Since explosives like Black Powder detonate, this must have always presented a risk and prevented progress into semi-auto designs before the late 1880's. Detonation is the chemical reaction of an explosive due to physical pressure. Smokeless powder doesn't detonate, it combusts (or burns very fast).

In any case, this has been an interesting thread...

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by mrerick

Mario,

CUP (copper crush) pressures can't be related to PSI strain gauge measured pressures. The relationship between them is not linear.

in studying Mauser's work (actually Feederle's design) on the C96 Broomhandle pistol for the Mauser Archive book Mauro and Gerben just finished, I realized that he could did not proceed on it's design until he had smokeless powder from Max Duttenhofer's powder mill in Rottweil. (1884)

The difference is that in single shot firearms and revolvers, you don't have the violent recoil movement of the action against hard stop parts during cycling, and the force that slamming the cartridge into the chamber in a semi-auto represents. That generates pressure waves within the cartridge itself.

Since explosives like Black Powder detonate, this must have always presented a risk and prevented progress into semi-auto designs before the late 1880's. Detonation is the chemical reaction of an explosive due to physical pressure. Smokeless powder doesn't detonate, it combusts (or burns very fast).

In any case, this has been an interesting thread...

First. Forget about C.U.P. then, we are talking 1 100 BAR, again for the .45 Colt.

For the rest, think repeating arms in powerfull blackpowder cartridges. IE 1886 Winchester.

Semi autos needed smokeless propellants because they also needed much less solid residue to work properlly, nothing else.

Edit. One more thing. Think Gatling gun.

[Olle]

I bought a few boxes of 9mm at a gun show a few years ago, came from a company in Crossville, TN. They must be loaded with blackpowder, because they blow more smoke than Dianne Feinstein. They are actually fun to shoot, that big, white puff kinda adds a new dimension to it.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Olle

I bought a few boxes of 9mm at a gun show a few years ago, came from a company in Crossville, TN. They must be loaded with blackpowder, because they blow more smoke than Dianne Feinstein. They are actually fun to shoot, that big, white puff kinda adds a new dimension to it.

I was at an outdoor range some years back, shooting a Colt Gold Cup, and the guy next to me had a .44 Pietta 1860 Colt replica. He fired off 6 quick shots, and I literally could not see the 25 yard targets...

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I was at an outdoor range some years back, shooting a Colt Gold Cup, and the guy next to me had a .44 Pietta 1860 Colt replica. He fired off 6 quick shots, and I literally could not see the 25 yard targets...

Now picture yourself in a match, with some 50 fellows around you shooting the same, in a windless morning and with the timer ticking. Been there done that.