Luger 45 ACP Project

[G.T.]

OK Eugene, I see, anyway, is mine on the way! can't wait to hit the range!.....GT

[DavidJayUden]

Keep us posted G. T. Always eager to hear the "new toy" stories...
dju

[Edward Tinker]

I'd want one ot work also - but it seems that 3 weeks to fit and finish a tried and true product (you've sent out 30+ or them?) would be like a weeks worth.

Is it really a 3 week process to fit and finish?

or is the truth that - it hinges on you and you put in a solid day, then 2 hrs the next day, nothing, then a solid day

[LugerMan.com]

Well it's 2-3 weeks for 5 guns,

to test fire, in house range session, tweaks,

open range session test,

Rust blue for a week.

Assembly test fire and shipping.

It's about 3 days per gun start to finsih.

And there are restorations in between.

[LugerMan.com]

Who owns an original Luger 45... need it for reference for a movie made on the production of the 1907 Reproductions

[Edward Tinker]

Originally Posted by LugerMan.com

Who owns an original Luger 45... need it for reference for a movie made on the production of the 1907 Reproductions

Books dude, books.

Forum, Jan's forum has a complete thread or two on this. Its called a search feature, works wonders

Short of it - there is a .45 cal Luger in the Robert W. Norton Gallery, in Shreveport, Louisiana. I have seen it - even after telling him I was writing an article on it (I was attempting to), they would not even let me see it without the glass.

A 2nd one that was sold, then while Krause had it, he took measurements. You know the rest of that part - it did get sold, the seller was annoynmous

So, unless you have pull with the Cajuns in Louisiana -

[LugerMan.com]

Targets from 5/29/18

[LugerMan.com]

To all of our patient clients,
Who trusted us with development, production and testing of their long awaited Luger 1907 45 reproductions:
Below please find an update of the current state of development.
While we are getting the guns ready for shipping according to the times of the original dates.
About a month ago, we have ran out of the first 100 magazines that were made,
And we are in process of reworking the magazine production process.
Trying to shorten and the production time and increase durability of the magazines.
Testing of a prototype number 4 showed that after about 9000 rounds, magazines develop
Some level of fatigue and started showing deformation around magazine button.
After talking to our heat treatment specialist, we decided to switch to a different material
And currently experimenting with 17-7 Stainless that were supposed to improve stability of the form after magazines are hardened and reviewed there possible deformation after heat treatment process.
While these experiments are ongoing,
We are proceeding with bending and forming of the next 100 units of magazines.
Currently production of the magazines is a slow and very QC involved process with a speed of 5 magazines a day.
And while the guns are been prepared for shipping and tested, we cannot send them out unit a set of 100 magazines is finished and heat treated and individual units are tested in the guns.
Heat treatment is a lot job and only cost effective when done on all mags at once.
All of this development is slowing down the shipment.
We have also improved our testing protocol …
As earlier units proved to be sensitive to the ammo selection.
We are currently testing every Luger 1907 model with 200-250 rounds of ammunition as market availability permits , from 10 to 12 different ammo manufactures to insure maximum possible reliability of the handguns.
Ammo tested: Fiocchi, Perfecta, Winchester, Remington, Federal Brass, Federal Aluminum, American Eagle, Blazer Brass, PMC, Lawman, Sellier & Bellot, Wolf, Tula Ammo, Armscor, Black Hills
About a month ago, we have acquired a Ransom Rest and several guns were tested for accuracy.
We found that we can consistently reproduce groups of 0.9 to 1.2 inch of 5 shots at 25 yards out of most pistols we tested.
Please let us know if a delay in deliveries conflict with anyone’s plans and expectations.
FYI: because of increasing costs of material, production costs, continues improvements and testing, any new orders placed from this point on will be priced at $6975 for a Classic 1907 Model.
Prices are subject to change without notice.
All confirmed orders placed before this date (7/7/2018) will maintain, previously advertised price.

Thanks

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by LugerMan.com

FYI: because of increasing costs of material, production costs, continues improvements and testing, any new orders placed from this point on will be priced at $6975 for a Classic 1907 Model.

I also think that $7,000 is way out of line. There are some of us (like me) who were waffling at the $5,000 price and had other commitments for that amount (like a replacement for the car that wouldn't pass inspection) but who now have the money but balk at the added $2,000.

Especially now that there is a new AutoMag.

[gunbugs]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I also think that $7,000 is way out of line. There are some of us (like me) who were waffling at the $5,000 price and had other commitments for that amount (like a replacement for the car that wouldn't pass inspection) but who now have the money but balk at the added $2,000.

Especially now that there is a new AutoMag.

Yep, that's me. 5k was a stretch, but I thought I could do it. 7k is out of my league. I can buy 3 pretty nice P-08's for that money.

[Edward Tinker]

no offense meant - but I highly doubt most people will shoot 9,000 rounds through their 45 luger. thats $2,000 minimum in ammo

- again, no offense, but I think you are over-thinking this. Simply guarantee the magazines for 5 yrs and replace one if it has cracks or issues.

A nice shooting gun is one thing, but a perfect gun requiring constant upgrades is no profit....

[DavidJayUden]

A new Automag?

[DonVoigt]

I doubt any of the original stamped/folded 9mm mags will go 9K rounds without a problem!
Maybe the Folded/welded Haenel mags might ?

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good! JMHO.

[rammercmc]

Eugene needs to take care of the original group of us who made deposits. I ordered a baby 45 and in Feb ordered a baby P38 and gave him a deposit. At the time he said 4 to 6 weeks on the P38. It has been a year and 4 months.

How many other members here have a deposit on a 45 and still waiting for delivery ? I am sure none would be concerned about a mag that lasts 9,000 rounds or a pistol that will run a large variety of ammo. Most of my olympic target pistols favor one manufacture over another.

All of us knew in advance this project would take quite some time but at 72 I can't wait TOO many YEARS.

[DavidJayUden]

Not to change the subject, but I took my .45 Luger over to the range again (for only the 2nd or 3rd time). It shot very well with both steel case Wolf ammo and some commercial FMJ stuff. Still prints a bit low and left, but not bad and not important enough to warrant scratching the bluing by replacing/drifting the sight. It really is a sweet gun to shoot, good trigger, long barrel, very ergonomic, low recoil, etc. I know the Lugerman would like me to wring it out more, but too many other projects calling my name...But thanks, Eugene!

[DonVoigt]

For sure, $7k would be a deal buster; 5k was tough enough!

But that will make the ones extant more valuable, I guess. Few will be made in the future, so total numbers will be smaller.

[Vlim]

It is interesting to see that you are not only succesfully recreating a classic handgun, but are also subjected to exactly the same problems that the original Parabellum producers faced.

The sheet metal 08 magazines were always an issue in the past. Most problems were solved by the milled / welded Haenel magazines in the 1930s.

You may want to look into reproducing a Haenel magazine in .45 ACP. It may solve a lot of problems and ease production.

Also what killed the Parabellum in the old days were the manufacturing costs, Mauser had optimized it's production pretty well in the 1970s but still struggled to make a profit. Krieghoff's attempt in 2009 cost about 13,000 Euros per gun … So you are not doing that bad

[LugerMan.com]

What killed the price in our case was the fact , that number of orders was not as expected...

We were hoping to get 100 to 200 orders the first year and that was goign to help expend and streamline the process,

Not having more capital and not sure of future orders, meany steps of manufacturing stayed hand involved for the luck of the better term, and been labor intensive, we are unable to keep the low price.

First 50 were no profit , and in hopes to increase numbers, it stayed low, second year looks about the same as the first,

So we had 2 different directions, stop production or continue with some profit to make operations somewhat profitable.

For now we selected option 2, as we are not giving up hope,
and realize that with only about 6 month of publicity and advertisement, volume may change a bit,

if that happens, we promise to bring prices down, but for now, they will only be goign up from year to year.

Our gall is to make as meany Lugers as we can, but we got to eat , while doing that.

But with all that sad, we do not want to go a car manufacturing approach, of get the product out there and fix problems later, not with guns and not under our watch.

Even with close inspections we still find small problems making it's way in to a enduser,

we only test with 200-300 rounds after all.

And we thank everyone for there feedback, that helps us improve and make the product better.


More guns coming up....

[Lugerdoc]

Eugene, As I recall John Martz used Sig 220 mags that he had GT modify for the luger. TH

[LugerMan.com]

How meany of you will by the gun if the mags are one part bent sheet metal and will not look correct for the 1907 trials.

Even if it make the gun $500-600 cheaper ?

And mags will probably will have to be 6 shot at that point