New “baby” for Eugen

[ithacaartist]

Eugene,

Yep, I also succumbed to the Erma bug once my immune system had been compromised by the Parabellum. I think you did on the high side of OK in your purchase, as these seem to have jumped up a bit for what they bring, compared to just a few years ago, The grip frames of these models are cast Zamak--a zinc alloy. As such, this major part is a major pain when it comes to showing wear in the finish. Fortunately, yours does not seem to have much in the typical areas on the front edges and corners, which are usually abraded to grey there.

I like the KGPs better than the early La and Ep series .22s made in the 60s. The earlier ones may have the same weight and approximate overall dimensions of a real Luger, they have very little steel in them. Ones like yours have only the frame and trigger that are cast, and they tend to work a little better than the others, too, although they can be cranky in operation. They were attractive to Dr. Robert Beeman (Dr. Airgun), who added them to his line of high quality airguns and sold them, Beeman branded, as the P08 (.22 cal.) and MP08 (.32 &.380).

I now have a dozen or so different examples of different models and have attended to various issues with them, most with some success. I have all sorts of parts for the Erma toggle pistols, so for most such issues you're covered. Our Lugerdoc has also worked on them and has some parts, too. And we can also look forward to a new reference book about Erma production and history by Holger Schlemier, a collector who lives in Belgium, who has been collecting serial number and marking info on them for the past few years.

Since these are actually less numerous than original Lugers, I predict you will be interrupted at the range by the curious. Enjoy1

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

The grip frames of these models are cast Zamak--a zinc alloy.

Dave, I seem to recall from a previous thread that the 'bigger' calibers had steel frames...

Regardless, I don't think I would be confident shooting a Zamak framed anything...

[Eugen]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Nice catch, as you say- not a screaming bargain- but a good looking example.

I've been on the lookout for one also, but at a "bargain" price!

Don, no bargain for sure. Blind desire rarely ends with a bargain deal. I wanted it and I got it. LOL I thought I'd improve my chances of reaching an agreement by being on the high side once they contacted the consignor. I made an impromptu decision that I did not want to engage in an internet search or bidding for one on GunBroker or some other market where I could not handle and examine it. I saw it, I played with it and I wanted it.

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

I only have a PDF on the Erma conversion kit...

This was a DVD I bought some years ago, it has all of these manuals on it...

http://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/Erma68/erma68.html


http://www.ai4fr.com/main/page_milit...uger_erma.html

Good info. Thank you sir.

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Eugene,

Yep, I also succumbed to the Erma bug once my immune system had been compromised by the Parabellum. I think you did on the high side of OK in your purchase, as these seem to have jumped up a bit for what they bring, compared to just a few years ago, The grip frames of these models are cast Zamak--a zinc alloy. As such, this major part is a major pain when it comes to showing wear in the finish. Fortunately, yours does not seem to have much in the typical areas on the front edges and corners, which are usually abraded to grey there.

I like the KGPs better than the early La and Ep series .22s made in the 60s. The earlier ones may have the same weight and approximate overall dimensions of a real Luger, they have very little steel in them. Ones like yours have only the frame and trigger that are cast, and they tend to work a little better than the others, too, although they can be cranky in operation. They were attractive to Dr. Robert Beeman (Dr. Airgun), who added them to his line of high quality airguns and sold them, Beeman branded, as the P08 (.22 cal.) and MP08 (.32 &.380).

I now have a dozen or so different examples of different models and have attended to various issues with them, most with some success. I have all sorts of parts for the Erma toggle pistols, so for most such issues you're covered. Our Lugerdoc has also worked on them and has some parts, too. And we can also look forward to a new reference book about Erma production and history by Holger Schlemier, a collector who lives in Belgium, who has been collecting serial number and marking info on them for the past few years.

Since these are actually less numerous than original Lugers, I predict you will be interrupted at the range by the curious. Enjoy1

ithacaartist, after reading John's post, you were just the man I was waiting to hear from. Thank you for the info. I will PM you when I get a chance to follow up on a list of typical wear/replacement parts that I should stock, and for other new owner advice.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Dave, I seem to recall from a previous thread that the 'bigger' calibers had steel frames...

Regardless, I don't think I would be confident shooting a Zamak framed anything...

Aah, I shoot mine all the time. I'm trying to get a .32 or .380 to be dependable enough to take to an IDPA match or two in the "backup gun" category. We shall see. The one I want to take is a .32, but it behaves as if the mag spring is too strong. The mag springs are a bear, as Eugen will find out, and you really need a loading tool to fill them up and still have skin left on your fingers. If the one that came with it is absent, grind out the "lip" of an otherwise defunct Luger tool and hang on tight! (The lip will fit under the follower button, but wedges itself there and the whole deal binds. It needs a straight-sided hole.)

The KGP series, as mentioned, has only a Zamak frame and trigger--the latter is impossible to "straw," and I must make a steel copy for my "Ermarican Eagle" project. This is in contrast to the earlier, full-size models, which only contain steel barrel liner (Zamak cast around it), breech block, and small parts. My pal Holger, the author, says that not even prototypes--of which he has one or more--were steel.

The KGP pistols probably did sell for what Tom recalls, particularly the Beeman branded ones that had some different features specified, but they started out in '68 costing around $89.95. The mostly-zinc, earlier models debuted at $49.95 in the early mid 60s.

On any of them, there is no movement of the upper because they are blow-back action. Hence, no wear from friction on the interface with the grip frame, whether steel-on-Zamak or both parts Zamak. The locking bolt transfers the forces of ignition to the frame in a beefy area, so no worries about breaking anything that way. The early ones have Zamak toggle joint components which are indeed very susceptible to being broken by too-powerful hyper velocity rounds, which hammer the action against itself just like a P.08 when shooting +P ammo! The only other way to harm them is to drop one, as they will shatter off the trigger guard, or the cast front sight leaf of the earlies.

[kurusu]

Maybe one of those cheap reprodution P08 loading tools they, have a straight hole.
And no need to ruin a good loading tool.

[Eugen]

I wanted to inquire if these ERMAs are C&R eligible? The gun shop seemed unsure so they said no. Hence my need to wait 3 days to possess it. I don't know the year the pistol was made; perhaps the serial number will reveal the year. Anyway if they are eligible, how do I prove that to the guys at the shop?