Gonzo Long Barreled P08 Project

[sheepherder]

I'm still contemplating on how to form my forearm, so in the meantime I decided to clean up my workbench of projects that have languished over the last couple of years...

The first pic is an 80% M1911 with a Bo-Mar Tuner Rib attached. The slide is a Numrich item while the 'parts kit' came from Sarco. There's a couple aftermarket and OEM Colt parts thrown in for good measure. Haven't shot it yet; no 45 target ammunition available.

Second pic is three Luger-style barrels. The top is an original Luger M1900 7.65mm barrel which was purchased from a forum member and was found to be 'squished' .020" in the middle, probably from being incorrectly [wrong or no tools] removed. I was able to obtain a ground drill blank in the correct size and slowly form it back to round shape with a planishing hammer. That left some marks, along with the 100+ year old nicks & scratches, so I used Ithacaartist's method of filing it on a lathe, insread of my usual single-point cutting. It worked out surprisingly well.

Bottom barrel of the second pic is a 1916 Bohler barrel included for comparison purposes. It's my 'control' barrel.

The middle barrel is a 3" 9mm Green River blank which I tried to profile to 'pocket Luger' shape. I couldn't find anyone who would measure their 'pocket Luger' barrel (which I am told was made from a shortened & silver-soldered Navy barrel) so I tried to take the measurements off a picture or two from PIA, Simpsons, and this forum of the original 'pocket Lugers' (not to be confused with Georg Lugers 'baby Luger"). I'm happy with the machine operations but somewhat disappointed with the actual profile. It looks awfully stubby. I understand that most later 'pocket Lugers' are made from shortened P08 barrels, but was the Navy barrel really so thick???

Posts here state that the Luger 'Fat Barrel' and 'Cartridge Counter' Lugers had the same dimensioned barrels used to make the shortened 'pocket Lugers', so that is what I used for my dimensions. Vernier calipers on a photograph; not the easiest (or best) way to get dimensions.

Eventually, I'll finish up cutting the sight dovetail and the muzzle, and install it on a barrel extension for looks. It's already indexed and chambered.

[sheepherder]

<sigh>...I've been sidetracked again...

I wanted a M1900-style rear toggle for my long-barrel Luger, that is one with scalloped knobs. I couldn't find one cheaply enough, so I decided to make one. The M1900 toggle is .150" wider through the knob area, so I couldn't mill a 50mm crescent that the M1900 uses, I had to mill a scallop like Orimar did on their year 2000 commemorative Lugers. It worked out quite well. [Second pic below].

Then, having an artillery rear toggle leftover from eBay, I decided to try an adjustable rear sight mounted on the Luger toggle. My supply of adjustable rear sights are mostly large rifle sights, but I had a couple of Elliason [Colt Gold Cup] sights and decided to try making a base for one of those. It worked out OK, but hangs off the rear quite a bit [first pic below]. I'm not happy with it, although it should function satisfactorily. The only hangup I have is that I don't have the correct #6 tap for the elevation screw. It's even finer than NEF. So I'll have to wait until my next tooling order to get that setup finished.

In the meantime, I have an old Millett adjustable rear sight intended for an M1911 or Hi-Power that is much shorter. I'll be making a base for that in the coming weeks.

[sheepherder]

Got all my long-barrel pieces assembled, and doing a trial fit of the forearm. It still needs work (or maybe a whole new forearm) but it seems to be coming along...



I'm not a woodworker, so it's definitely rough. However, the pic shows my Gonzo cartridge-counter grips and modified magazine, the scalloped toggle knobs, the Tomek magazine bottom, the strawed parts, and the new blueing. It started to snow while I took these pics, so I didn't have time to wipe off oily fingerprints...

Modified Remington M700 30-06 barrel chambered in 7.65 Parabellum, shortened FN/Mauser carbine rear sight, custom front sight.

[sheepherder]

After doing some experimenting with my corner rounding end mill on that soft pine, I felt confident enough to do some more corner rounding on my forearm...

(106) Extending the flat on the bottom further forward.
(107) Extending the rounded corners of the bottom forward to the Schnabel tip I created in 106.
(108) Lightly sanded and rubbed, then attached to the frame lug for inspection. My brass inlay needs to be milled down 10 or 20 thousandths, and I made a couple mistakes doing these additional tapers. A chip here, a cutter line there. It's not perfect, but I'm not either, so this will do for now. Still needs more work of course, blending the taper curves together, maybe rounding the top line.

A member suggested that I have the forearm checkered. That would hide/detract from my mistakes, but is this 'Gonzo' Luger long-barrel really deserving of checkering??? I'll have to mull that over for a while and maybe consult a higher power...

The checkering on the grips is awful coarse, and the grips themselves are quite thick...And my 'cartridge counter' mod to them isn't all that great...

Also, the brass inlay would interfere with a traditional checkering pattern...And the side checkering would need to be different...

My brain hurts...



I just noticed that Herbert Werle's carbine does not use the forearm 'wedge' to hold his forearm on (pic in post #1 above). It seems to be held on by the sling stud. That's cool; I managed to copy his idea without knowing it...

Continuing on with a couple of small refinements...

(109) Thinning the brass inlay. I put a .004" shim between the inlay and the wood so I wouldn't cut into the forearm.
(110) Milling down the brass screws, so they won't hit the barrel.
(111) I still need to finish the tip of the forearm. I don't have good pictures of how it should be shaped, so I'm going by guesswork. The tip seems to be rounded from the side and from the top. I made up a quick and dirty fixture to hold the forearm level (along the barrel axis) so it could be sanded to a round contour in the side view. I'm using my pine 'practice' forearm to see how it would look. It worked excellently. In hindsight, I should have sanded the front tip round after milling the sides and bottom flat but before using my corner rounding end mill on the bottom curved surface. That would have allowed me to draw my round contour directly on the flat of the wood and then I could have easily sanded it and then gone on to the corner rounding of the bottom. As it is, my surface is curved and I'm not skilled enough to sand it freehand without a guide of some sort. If I totally ruin this Walnut forearm, I'll make a new one the right way. But I'm too far advanced to trash this one and start over without a compelling reason.
(112) I've been looking at pics of Luger forearms on the net and mine looks 'thick' by comparison. Looking closely, I notice that the forearm upper deck height is right at the centerline of the barrel, while mine is approximately 3/32" above that centerline. Mulling over how best to cut that much/little off the upper deck, I decided to try side milling it, both sides at once, and climb milling to minimize chips. Here is one of my practice pieces being climb/side milled to see how well this works. Note: It works great!



Next up is to 'thin' my good Walnut forearm. Same technique as in the previous pic. Climb/side mill the upper deck - comparison of pictures from a recent auction show I need to mill .125" off my deck to get the correct height.

(113) Side/climb milling my good forearm, upper deck.
(114) Re-cutting the deck taper of the forearm.
(115) Tip profile curve marked on tape; sanding curve with forearm clamped in Gonzo sanding fixture.
(116) How the profile now looks, with top deck lowered and front tip profile sanded curved. I still need to sand the bottom/top of the tip to a curve also. Pictures show this curve to be rounded in both axes; I'm not sure how to do that. I'll have to think it over...Maybe with a corner rounding end mill or router bit in my rotary indexing head???

[sheepherder]

I didn't like the 'curl' at the tip of my forearm, so I made another one. That makes a total of five forearms I've made, and except for a chip, this last one came out just the way I wanted. So, more pictures.

Quick & dirty rundown...

(1) Donor wood stock, a Steyr straight-pull.
(2) Milling the inletting for the forearm lug.
(3) Milling the slot for the brass inlay.



(4) Milling trigger guard cut.
(5) Milling scallops with 1/2" ball end mill.
(6) Milling bottom flat, up to curl.
(7) Two views of squared-off forearm.



(8) Rounding bottom of side with corner rounding end mill.
(9) Same on other side.
(10) Chamfering top sides with weird burr.
(11) Two views of rounded-off forearm.



(12) Modified fixtures used to hold forearm for milling.
(13) Milling brass inlay to size.
(14) Rounding ends of inlay.
(15) Drilling & counterboring inlay for attaching screws.



(16) Finished forearm and brass inlay.



This completes the long-barreled part of this project. All metal parts are either blued or strawed (or brass) and forearm is finished except for final sanding and treating with BLO.

On to the next part!

[sheepherder]

When I dug out my sales receipt from 1992, it was for a 1917 Luger. So, it could have been for a Luger carbine. I have both a 13" and a 16" barreled receiver for this Luger, so here's the period buttstock for it.

Finding a buttstock was very frustrating. I wanted a '1902 style' profile but all I could find were '1920 style' repros or duplicates. So, I ended up getting a used semi-finished 1920 style and sectioning & gluing it to look like a 1902 style.

(1) Buttstock as received from eBay seller.
(2) Milling a .060" thick x 10mm Walnut 'popsicle stick' for stock iron groove, both top & bottom.
(3) Popsicle sticks glued in & being milled to fit iron.
(4) Milling butt flat, and at an angle like 1902.



(5), (6), and (7) Milling lever reliefs in gooseneck with ball end mill.
(8) Stock iron fitted.



(9) Sawing eBay buttstock in half. EEK!!! What is this madman doing???
(10) Sawed pieces. Actually, two saw cuts, to create a ~5/16" taper/drop to the stock
(11) Milling sawn end of stock flat.
(12) Milling 3/8" slot for reinforcing wedge.



(13) Milling sawn end of gooseneck flat.
(14) Clamping stock pieces together to mark gooseneck for slot.
(15) Milling 3/8" slot in gooseneck.
(16) Pieces slotted and stacked to admire.



The slots have been milled at different angles, so the filler piece cab be wedge-shaped. Maked fitting easier.

(17) Milling a piece of Walnut down to .375".
(18) Clockwise - Spare piece of 3/8" Walnut; cardboard form; 3/8" wedge inserted between two sawn pieces.
(19) Wedge & two pieces glued together with Resorcinol glue and left clamped under mill quill.
(20) Glued buttstock 24 hours later, ready for shaping.

[sheepherder]

Glue has cured, excess wood of wedge has been band-sawed off, I'm now rough sanding the wedge and slots.

(21) Sanding the top of the wedge/slot. Bottom was next.
(22) Filling in some chips & low spots with the Resorcinol glue. Olle told me that Aircraft Spruce Co. had industrial-strength Resorcinol glue ("Cascophen") for use on aircraft and marine applications. The Resorcinol glue you get in hardware stores is watered-down and regulated to the point that it's no longer effective. This is the good stuff. Can be sanded, sawed, drilled, etc. When cured.
(23), (24) Rough sanding finished.



A buttplate is next. I could not find anything suitable. So I made one out of black Delrin. I love Delrin. It's lathe-turnable, millable, drillable, you can even tap/thread it. Nice hard Acetal plastic.

(25) Milling a piece of Delrin flat.
(26) Drilling attaching holes.
(27) Drilling the butt to match the buttplate holes.
(28) Rough belt-sanding the Delrin buttplate to shape.



(29) Buttplate fitted to stock; final marking of edges. Screws used are from an 1891 Argentine Mauser rifle. And, at this point, disaster struck. One of the old screws snapped the head off. Crystalline fracture. I couldn't grab onto the piece in the stock, I had to drill the piece out. This left a ragged hole, so I enlarged it and glued in a Walnut plug.
(30) 1/2" hole drilled for plug. Finished plug is in lathe in background.
(31) Resorcinol glue used to secure plug.
(32) Milling plug flat.



Following that setback, it was time to finish off the buttplate.

(33) Drilling the plug for the Mauser screw. I have several.
(34) Milling/thinning the buttplate to 5/16" thick.
(35) Rounding the edge with a 1/8" radius corner rounding router bit.
(36) Final sanding & fitting of buttplate to stock.



Time to finish sand and prep the forearm and buttstock for BLO. I followed the instructions given at Ironwood Designs for finishing their gunstocks (http://ironwooddesigns.com/IWDfinish.html). Five coats of Boiled Linseed Oil, let dry 24 hours, then buff.

(37) After first heavy coat of BLO. Waiting 15 mins then wipe excess off, then 4 thin coats, let dry 24 hrs.
(38) Finished stock/forearm after buffing.
(39) The finished and assembled Gonzo Luger long barreled carbine. It's no beauty, but it sure is...different...