Another auction

ken d · 11-07-2003, 07:40 PM

Break out the piggy bank. Gun List dated 22 Nov, lists Rock Island auction on 14-15 Dec. Item:
"Mauser prototype .45 cal Pistol. This is serial #2 in the Sidney Aberman collection and was one of the prototype test pistols in the 1906 test trials." Anybody want to bid?
Regards,

Ken D

Edward Tinker · 11-07-2003, 08:06 PM

Lets see, we all chip in $1,000 and then I get it for a week, then you then...

Here is the info:

http://www.rockislandauction.com/auc..._premiere.html
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> An incredible collection of European Semi-automatic Pistols led by the Mauser prototype .45 cal Pistol. This is serial #2 formally in the Sidney Aberman collection and was one of the prototype test pistols in the 1906 test trials competing with Colt, Luger and other world manufacturers for the U.S. contract to supply the military with a .45 cal semi-auto pistol. Also in this sale are a 1902 Fat barrel Luger, 1906 Portuguese Navy Luger (only 4 known), 1937 Kriegoff with holster, Pacific Arms Artillery with holster, A.F. Stoger Artillery with holster rig, Cased Swiss prototype #168 and other truly notable semi-auto pistols. <hr /></blockquote>

Pete Ebbink · 11-07-2003, 08:35 PM

Man oh man...ya gotta love those luger preview photos :

Think I see a Pacific Arms LP-08 luger in the bunch...and maybe a 1922 Vicker's Dutch...and then a nice Portuguese GNR rig...holly smokes...!!! <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> Where is my drool bib...?

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Pete Ebbink · 11-07-2003, 08:47 PM

Okay...I have settled down.

These Rock Island postings reminded me about a concern I have come away from when visiting two previous auction preview-days in the past 6 months.

No need to name names...but I imagine this risk it there with most :

Earlier this year in SF and just recently at the Las Vegas gun show, I saw many "consignment" rifles and pistols crowded together (too closely) on tables for preview showings. As careful as you would hope most folks are, I cringed everytime I heard metal-to-metal and metal-to-wood contact when viewers were picking up guns and placing them back on the tables.

Just wondered how the guns' owners would feel if their guns came back from the auction, unsold, but with a bit more wear & tear...

Okay, I am stepping off my <img border="0" alt="[soapbox]" title="" src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" />

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Big Norm · 11-08-2003, 12:11 AM

Lets see...15% buyers premium on a million bucks...HOLY COW!!! I can't afford the buyers premium.

Seriously, I would like to see what all the Lugers eventually sell for with their pictures and descriptions attached. I often wondered if it was worth while to go to this auction. They often look as though they have some good Lugers there.
Big Norm
________________________________________________
Before you critisize a man you should walk a mile in his shoes. Then, if he gets mad, you are a mile away and you have his shoes.

ken d · 11-08-2003, 06:19 PM

Forgot to add, I have no connection with this auction. I like Norm would be left out with the 15% buyer premium.

Regards ken d

Imperial Arms · 11-08-2003, 11:53 PM

For those collectors interested in some Mauser knowledge, this prototype is actually a Mauser Nickel pistol, Nickel who was a worker in he experimental department. The pistol has a very interesting mechanism with a rotating barrel.

Cheers,
Albert

Doug G. · 11-09-2003, 07:58 AM

I believe that the .45 prototype is not a Luger. Remember that Mauser did not acquire DWM until after WWII. I bet it is still worth a bunch though.

Imperial Arms · 11-09-2003, 04:04 PM

Obviously it is not a Luger pistol, but it does have a connection to the 1907 US Test Trials where the Luger .45 was tested against this experimantal pistol in addition to the Roth-Steyr experimental in caliber .45. This Mauser Nickel pistol was also made in limited quantities in a pocket size model in caliber 7.65 mm Browning and 9 mm (see image hereunder).

I reckon that this pistol will fetch over $90k in the auction, but the end point is unknown until the auction.

Cheers,
Albert

mauro · 11-09-2003, 04:31 PM

What a beautiful LP08s!!!
If my eyes are good enough, the LP08 on the left is a Stoeger 3 lines, made by Mauser in the '30 era. As far as I know this LP08 is very well done and very appreciated by collectors. Right now I have only analysed a two lines 1923 Stoeger LP08. There are several differences between the 1923 and the 1930, not only related to the added line.
The other one is a Pacific Arm model. This is the first time I see a LP08 with the Pacific Arm disk in the grips. Right now my knowledge was limited to the LP08 illustrated in the advertisings. Very exciting.
Please note also the holsters, that are different from the Imperial one and are more similar to the Persian model.
Very very interesting.
Ciao
Mauro

ken d · 11-09-2003, 08:07 PM

My mistake. I thought this was the serial number 02, .45 LUGER, once owned by Aberman. Should have read the description twice. Thanks for correction.

Regards

Ken D

Big Norm · 11-09-2003, 08:20 PM

My thoughts went to the holsters of the artilleries. Would brown holsters be the norm for artilleries of this vintage? My first thoughts would be that they are repros. Then I thought that maybe they would be brown for commercial artillery lugers. If they are authentic but commercial, would there be any marking on them to distinguish them from modern repros?
Big Norm

Pete Ebbink · 11-09-2003, 08:25 PM

Guys,

I think we need to find a LF member to volunteer to go down to Moline,IL to make the preview days...with a digital camera as well...

Big Norm...aren't you close and will you be back from hunting by then...?

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

tracyp · 11-09-2003, 10:47 PM

If you go to Rockisland, then you've got to stop a Simpson's. They are just a few miles away. I went there about a year and a half ago. It's about three hours drive from Chicago.

Tracy

the gunman · 11-09-2003, 10:55 PM

Sure make me happy with the GNR I just recently
got my grubby little hands on.

Big Norm · 11-10-2003, 07:21 PM

Pete,
this auction is across Michigan and Illinois. Quite a jaunt. About a good six hours plus with steady driving with good weather. If I had a digital camera and knew how to post pictures, I would post some pictures of guns that I do have and that would excite a lot of people too much. I showed my brother from Escondido about two thirds of my collection and I had a hard time getting rid of him. I would sooner be your average extemely handsome and great personality Luger collector and be friends with everybody.
Big Norm

11-09-2003, 07:58 AM	#8
Doug G. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 713 Thanks: 1 Thanked 53 Times in 17 Posts	I believe that the .45 prototype is not a Luger. Remember that Mauser did not acquire DWM until after WWII. I bet it is still worth a bunch though. __________________ Suppose you were an idiot.....and suppose you were a member of Congress.....But I repeat myself" ~~ Mark Twain

11-09-2003, 04:31 PM	#10
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 350 Times in 129 Posts	What a beautiful LP08s!!! If my eyes are good enough, the LP08 on the left is a Stoeger 3 lines, made by Mauser in the '30 era. As far as I know this LP08 is very well done and very appreciated by collectors. Right now I have only analysed a two lines 1923 Stoeger LP08. There are several differences between the 1923 and the 1930, not only related to the added line. The other one is a Pacific Arm model. This is the first time I see a LP08 with the Pacific Arm disk in the grips. Right now my knowledge was limited to the LP08 illustrated in the advertisings. Very exciting. Please note also the holsters, that are different from the Imperial one and are more similar to the Persian model. Very very interesting. Ciao Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

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11-07-2003, 07:40 PM	#1
ken d Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: louisville ky Posts: 277 Thanks: 31 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	Another auction Break out the piggy bank. Gun List dated 22 Nov, lists Rock Island auction on 14-15 Dec. Item: "Mauser prototype .45 cal Pistol. This is serial #2 in the Sidney Aberman collection and was one of the prototype test pistols in the 1906 test trials." Anybody want to bid? Regards, Ken D

11-07-2003, 08:06 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	Lets see, we all chip in $1,000 and then I get it for a week, then you then... Here is the info: http://www.rockislandauction.com/auc..._premiere.html </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> An incredible collection of European Semi-automatic Pistols led by the Mauser prototype .45 cal Pistol. This is serial #2 formally in the Sidney Aberman collection and was one of the prototype test pistols in the 1906 test trials competing with Colt, Luger and other world manufacturers for the U.S. contract to supply the military with a .45 cal semi-auto pistol. Also in this sale are a 1902 Fat barrel Luger, 1906 Portuguese Navy Luger (only 4 known), 1937 Kriegoff with holster, Pacific Arms Artillery with holster, A.F. Stoger Artillery with holster rig, Cased Swiss prototype #168 and other truly notable semi-auto pistols. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-07-2003, 08:35 PM	#3
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Man oh man...ya gotta love those luger preview photos : Think I see a Pacific Arms LP-08 luger in the bunch...and maybe a 1922 Vicker's Dutch...and then a nice Portuguese GNR rig...holly smokes...!!! <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> Where is my drool bib...? Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

11-07-2003, 08:47 PM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Okay...I have settled down. These Rock Island postings reminded me about a concern I have come away from when visiting two previous auction preview-days in the past 6 months. No need to name names...but I imagine this risk it there with most : Earlier this year in SF and just recently at the Las Vegas gun show, I saw many "consignment" rifles and pistols crowded together (too closely) on tables for preview showings. As careful as you would hope most folks are, I cringed everytime I heard metal-to-metal and metal-to-wood contact when viewers were picking up guns and placing them back on the tables. Just wondered how the guns' owners would feel if their guns came back from the auction, unsold, but with a bit more wear & tear... Okay, I am stepping off my <img border="0" alt="[soapbox]" title="" src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" /> Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

11-08-2003, 12:11 AM	#5
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Lets see...15% buyers premium on a million bucks...HOLY COW!!! I can't afford the buyers premium. Seriously, I would like to see what all the Lugers eventually sell for with their pictures and descriptions attached. I often wondered if it was worth while to go to this auction. They often look as though they have some good Lugers there. Big Norm ________________________________________________ Before you critisize a man you should walk a mile in his shoes. Then, if he gets mad, you are a mile away and you have his shoes.

11-08-2003, 06:19 PM	#6
ken d Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: louisville ky Posts: 277 Thanks: 31 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	Forgot to add, I have no connection with this auction. I like Norm would be left out with the 15% buyer premium. Regards ken d

11-08-2003, 11:53 PM	#7
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	For those collectors interested in some Mauser knowledge, this prototype is actually a Mauser Nickel pistol, Nickel who was a worker in he experimental department. The pistol has a very interesting mechanism with a rotating barrel. Cheers, Albert

11-09-2003, 04:04 PM	#9
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Obviously it is not a Luger pistol, but it does have a connection to the 1907 US Test Trials where the Luger .45 was tested against this experimantal pistol in addition to the Roth-Steyr experimental in caliber .45. This Mauser Nickel pistol was also made in limited quantities in a pocket size model in caliber 7.65 mm Browning and 9 mm (see image hereunder). I reckon that this pistol will fetch over $90k in the auction, but the end point is unknown until the auction. Cheers, Albert

11-09-2003, 08:07 PM	#11
ken d Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: louisville ky Posts: 277 Thanks: 31 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	My mistake. I thought this was the serial number 02, .45 LUGER, once owned by Aberman. Should have read the description twice. Thanks for correction. Regards Ken D

11-09-2003, 08:20 PM	#12
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	My thoughts went to the holsters of the artilleries. Would brown holsters be the norm for artilleries of this vintage? My first thoughts would be that they are repros. Then I thought that maybe they would be brown for commercial artillery lugers. If they are authentic but commercial, would there be any marking on them to distinguish them from modern repros? Big Norm

11-09-2003, 08:25 PM	#13
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Guys, I think we need to find a LF member to volunteer to go down to Moline,IL to make the preview days...with a digital camera as well... Big Norm...aren't you close and will you be back from hunting by then...? Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

11-09-2003, 10:47 PM	#14
tracyp User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 391 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	If you go to Rockisland, then you've got to stop a Simpson's. They are just a few miles away. I went there about a year and a half ago. It's about three hours drive from Chicago. Tracy

11-09-2003, 10:55 PM	#15
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Sure make me happy with the GNR I just recently got my grubby little hands on.

11-10-2003, 07:21 PM	#16
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Pete, this auction is across Michigan and Illinois. Quite a jaunt. About a good six hours plus with steady driving with good weather. If I had a digital camera and knew how to post pictures, I would post some pictures of guns that I do have and that would excite a lot of people too much. I showed my brother from Escondido about two thirds of my collection and I had a hard time getting rid of him. I would sooner be your average extemely handsome and great personality Luger collector and be friends with everybody. Big Norm