Advice Needed

[Castle]

Thanks, DJU. I am supporting or bracing the mag. from the bottom. When I load two rounds, the first loads normally when I withdraw and release the toggle, and it fires normally, but it may smokestack, and the next round jams as usual. I'm using Winchester FMJ .30. Puzzling to me.......Thanks again for your reply......CF

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by Castle

Thanks, DJU. I am supporting or bracing the mag. from the bottom. When I load two rounds, the first loads normally when I withdraw and release the toggle, and it fires normally, but it may smokestack, and the next round jams as usual. I'm using Winchester FMJ .30. Puzzling to me.......Thanks again for your reply......CF

Take a close look at the ejector extractor group. maybe the previous round isn't clearing off well enough.

Just a thought.

[DavidJayUden]

So when you say you are supporting or bracing the mag, you are consciously pressing up on it? It's almost sounding like the toggle isn't going back far enough. I personally view Wolff springs with suspicion, like they are one-size-fits-all or universal in nature.
Some masking tape of the back of the frame to see if the rear toggle link is hitting the frame on recoil may be the next test. If the tape isn't being hit at all then you may need more recoil or less spring.
I am assuming that the gun is clean and very generously lubed?
dju

[DonVoigt]

Forgive me if I missed it, but did you Polish the chamber?

STove pipe nearly always means the bolt did not retract all the way, so your ammo may still be the problem. Give us a list of what you have used.

Pushing up on the magazine is not a good idea IMO, let it rest/hang on the notch and mag catch.
Pushing or holding up can raise it too much and put extra pressure on the bottom of the bolt when it retracts-slowing it down.

Does the receiver assembly move smoothly in the frame by hand without the recoil spring engaged? It should.

I believe you said in a post that if you load one round, the toggle will latch open on an empty magazine, correct? If so, then the ammo seems ok or at worst marginal

Sometimes the lips of the mag may need polishing or the outside ears may be contacting the frame and need shaping/polishing--But this is probably not your problem as you have the same problem with two mags of very different vintage.

NEXT time shooting, take your camera. When the pistol jams, stove pipes, or fails to load, take pictures of the position of the shell/cartridge before you clear it. You may need help for this and a helpful range officer; do be careful- best to have a friend hold the camera and take the pictures while you have the pistol under control.

[DavidJayUden]

Don:
Pushing up on the magazine simply tests the mag. catch for wear. If worn, the magazine hangs too low and causes feeding issues, which I have experienced on at least 1 occasion and which was remedied with a replacement mag. catch button. This is not suggested as a normal practice for shooting, simply as a trouble-shooting test.
dju

[G.T.]

lets go back to the very beginning! take your different ammo out to the range..... load one round in the magazine, charge the gun, fire and see if it locks back...everytime!!!!! ... until you have this function 100% nothing else matters.... this tells you if the spring is not too strong, and if the ammo has enough energy to get it to the holdopen! ... Now, go to two rounds, three, etc....
If you have jams discern what type? Failure to feed? If it is picking up the ammo ahead of the rim, then the magazine spring isn't strong/fast enough? loaded round smokestack? Then the ramp is rough or incorrect. to steep? Or, the feedlips on the mag too long, not letting the cartridge base hop up? Or, the ammo is too short.. Win. ammo is golden in this regard, I'm not saying it is as long OAL as it should be, but it is long enough to work! Smokestack or stovepipe jams on empties? Most likely even while feeding a new round... If all else works as far as feeding, locking open, ammo etc. then the magazine whether loaded or empty, is still sitting too low in the frame?.. It needs to hang in the mag well at just the right height to eject properly... Too low and the cartridges won't rebound off the following cartridge or follower itself?.... Holding it up might help if you get it just right, but often the pressure hinders it as much as the elevation helps it..... If you can't make it work then send it to me! I'm just silly enough to hunt the problem down and then kill it!... ... best to all, til...lat'r....GT...

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Don:
Pushing up on the magazine simply tests the mag. catch for wear. If worn, the magazine hangs too low and causes feeding issues, which I have experienced on at least 1 occasion and which was remedied with a replacement mag. catch button. This is not suggested as a normal practice for shooting, simply as a trouble-shooting test.
dju

I understand,
but it sounded like he was doing it ALL the time, maybe not though.

Castle,
You say you have not polished the chamber- but not why you have not! Just do it, you have tried everything else!

At least that would eliminate one possible source of trouble, or at best cure it!

[Castle]

First, thanks for all the helpful posts. Much appreciated. Have now tried the masking tape test, and, although it's a little hard to tell, I think the stop on the rear toggle link is hitting the frame where it needs to. Yes, I can load one round in the mag., chamber it, and it fires and locks back as it should. I have examined the ramps and found no sign of rough toolmarks, even under light magnification. I have not polished the chamber, but I have made sure it's clean. The ammo I have used is as follows: Fiocchi 93 grs. SJSP; Fiocchi 93 grs. FMJ; PPU 93 grs. FMJ; Winchester 93 gr. FMJ. Thanks again to all.......CF

[lugerholsterrepair]

I'm just silly enough to hunt the problem down and then kill it!... YIKES! GT will do it too...That's just the kind of guy he is!

[Castle]

Thanks for good replies. I'm happy to try polishing the chamber, but I don't even know exactly what polishing the chamber involves. What should I do? Note: I don't have any kind of shop. I have a kitchen table and some dental tools (no kidding!) from a friend. With them, I have been able to swap recoil springs, but that's about it. As Don says, I have tried everything else, but I'm learning, so that's something......CF

[G.T.]

0000 steel wool packed on a split aluminum mandrel spun with a small cordless drill for about 10 seconds will do nicely?.... ....GT

[tomaustin]

GT, you got a photo of that polishing setup?

[DonVoigt]

One can accomplish the same result with 4-0 wound onto a bore brush and lubed with oil,
spin it with a cordless drill. Just keep it moving slightly in and out.

Like you would when honing the cylinders when rebuilding an engine.

A little simichrome on a wool swab after will shine and smooth it up a little more.

[G.T.]

Dons method is actually better, as the brush would grab the 4-0 wool no problem... and all is as soft as non ferrous (I know the steel wool is steel!.. ) ..... a few cycles in and out, job completed!..... Oil is a good idea as well.... tomaustin, I don't have any pics, but I have used split mandrels for just about ever bore polishing task one can imagine?.... for about 40 years! Just take a round aluminum rod, or even wood dowel, cut a slot, and get after it!... results are amazing? hurts nothing! til...lat'r...GT...

[Castle]

Thanks, everybody. I can see how polishing the chamber might help, but I'm just not set up for it. Don't have the tools, don't have the knowhow, and fear making things worse. Time for me to stand down on this project, I have decided. I like my Luger and plan to hang onto it and let the problem take care of itself. That always works, right? Again thanks for all the expert and friendly help from members.....CF

[DavidJayUden]

Sometimes, when all else fails, it pays to box it up and send it to one of our gunsmiths and let them fix it. Lugerdoc has repaired mine, and I'm sure G. T. and others can fix yours too. Checkbook gunsmithing...
dju

[Sergio Natali]

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Sometimes, when all else fails, it pays to box it up and send it to one of our gunsmiths and let them fix it. Lugerdoc has repaired mine, and I'm sure G. T. and others can fix yours too. Checkbook gunsmithing...
dju

I would do exactly like that, I think I can solve let's say fairly common problems, but sometimes Lugers tend to be a bit more "dificult", so in that case I would follow David's advice.

[rhuff]

I have to ask, when you fire your Luger, do you fire it one handed, or with two hands?? Lugers take a firm grip to allow the toggle train to function correctly.....otherwise it will short stroke and jam.

[Castle]

I'm firing two-handed and making an effort to keep a good grip and wrists stiff. I don't think this is the issue. As for checkbook gunsmithing, I'm all for it, but the checkbook will need a little help before I can proceed. CF

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by Castle

I'm firing two-handed and making an effort to keep a good grip and wrists stiff. I don't think this is the issue. As for checkbook gunsmithing, I'm all for it, but the checkbook will need a little help before I can proceed. CF

Maybe, maybe not; just for S & G, try the classic one arm extended and elbow locked stance.

It may be just enough to cause it to work with the ammo you have.