8-28-15 UPDATED: Pictures 1906 Navy basket case project, fini! - Page 2

cirelaw · 08-03-2015, 06:33 PM

TKS I found some minor pitting under a grip and then on only one side. It amazes me I do own some that are basically pristene. Usually they were early commercials which have never seen war like conditions. Caveat Emptor, If a WW1 Imperial is looks perfect get another opinions or more! We have some of the finest friendly experts available. Nothing wrong with natural life marks and all are parts of their history. The problem is when one tries to reverse the obvious. Every luger has a story, past and now a future. They are valuable in every condition. Eric

cirelaw · 08-03-2015, 07:14 PM

Don and Dave you have opened another view of luger collecting. Ted first opened my eyes! So many parts have deemed worthless and discarded. I've taken another view of luger collection and definitely another new market! Success! Eric

tomaustin · 08-03-2015, 08:27 PM

I sure hope you plan to fire this gun in a highly controlled manner.....a remote method for trigger pull with shielding for protection......too many accidental opportunities here......tom

DonVoigt · 08-03-2015, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomaustin

I sure hope you plan to fire this gun in a highly controlled manner.....a remote method for trigger pull with shielding for protection......too many accidental opportunities here......tom

No, I don't think so. The upper is like new and that is where all the activity is. The frame is fine on the inside- where it counts.

But thanks much for the heads up, being careful is never a bad idea.

DonVoigt · 08-04-2015, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick W.

When one considers the total safety equation of a firearm, new appearances or stamped numbers are don't care variables in the total solution.

I'm not sure what this means in relation to this project,
please explain.

DonVoigt · 08-04-2015, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick W.

I tried to explain with a fairly lengthy notation, but finally just erased it. I just cannot state it more simply than I did.

Thanks for trying, I guess my brain just does not work the same as yours.

DonVoigt · 08-04-2015, 01:43 PM

8-4-16 FIRING UPDATE

Loads, fires, and ejects properly and in general shoots great!

I didn't fire for accuracy, which depends on how well I can see the sights or the target!
I can't see both at the same time.

Thanks again to all who helped with parts and advice.

DonVoigt · 08-11-2015, 10:20 AM

Well, sort of bad news this am.

Seems the frame will have to live on with its full complement of Pitting.

I had sent it to Mr. Danner for evaluation and received this response:
"Received frame yesterday. The condition is worse than I would care to take on. Welding would be chancey for burn-through. Sorry. I will get it on the way back to you."

I will work on a couple small areas with a draw file and paper myself,
but basically it will remain as we see it!

alanint · 08-11-2015, 11:13 AM

Have you run this by Thor? Some craftsman's "no" is another's challenge.

DonVoigt · 08-11-2015, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

Have you run this by Thor? Some craftsman's "no" is another's challenge.

No, it is a possibility; but Mr. Danner's evaluation agreed with my own, the pits are just too deep.

I'm afraid it would look like one of those Hollywood stars that had one face lift too many!

lfid · 08-12-2015, 12:47 AM

what about welding up using a henrob type gas torch, fine point heat etc ?

I once saw at a swap meet a factory rep rejoin a very thin sliced steel can nearly perfectly with henrob. seems like it was steel coffee can. weld was perfect and no metal warping, slightly beaded up ridge at the joined seam.

burn thru with electric arc I can appreciate that !

good luck
Bill

DonVoigt · 08-12-2015, 09:47 AM

Bill,
that would be a LOT of welding, and then even more filing and smoothing.
For those who didn't see the condition here are a couple pictures again.

And what it looks like with a little cold blue and dressed out with the nice upper and grips.

I think I will just work on the few spots i can improve and then treat it to a re- blue for protection/appearance, and keep it as an interesting shooter.

It does shoot sweetly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lfid

what about welding up using a henrob type gas torch, fine point heat etc ?

I once saw at a swap meet a factory rep rejoin a very thin sliced steel can nearly perfectly with henrob. seems like it was steel coffee can. weld was perfect and no metal warping, slightly beaded up ridge at the joined seam.

burn thru with electric arc I can appreciate that !

good luck
Bill

Thor · 08-16-2015, 09:45 AM

I would pass on doing this one too. Life is too short and I am too old.

Vlim · 08-16-2015, 09:54 AM

You may want to look into laser welding. A good laser welder can weld on a square mm without ruining the underlying or surrounding material. It doesn't even affect the hardening.

DonVoigt · 08-16-2015, 08:13 PM

Thanks Vilm and Thor.

I've not seen or hear of laser welding around here; makes sense that it could do fine work.

But I'm guessing the cost would be pretty steep for a frame "covered" with pitting.

I may have hit the point of diminishing returns as Thor observes. If it were one of a kind or even one of a few, it would be somewhat different.

It works as it is, the history is still there in spite of it's neglected condition.

DonVoigt · 08-23-2015, 11:48 PM

August 23, 2015 Update

Got the rust blued '06 frame back from C. Danner, a couple pictures are below after I strawed the small parts today and got it back together. I let the mag release get too hot and it ran to blue, so when motivated, I'll do it over.

Danner's rust blue is nearly an exact match for the original blue as seen on the original upper and original finish grip safety.

That ugly side plate is an original number "11"; some day I may work on it to remove pits and have Danner re-blue it, again.

I do need to find a commercial take down lever, #11 would be nice.

So, it is finished for now. Will fire it again tomorrow and expect it to do as well as it did before,
which is to say no "problems" at all.

It is a cool shooter,
and doesn't look bad at all from 5 feet away!

Pictures from today and three from the "original" condition.

4 Scale · 08-24-2015, 10:42 AM

It's very enjoyable to see your end result. It is if you have "frozen" the pistol in its present condition, awaiting the time or resources or technology to complete the restoration.

The 'conventional wisdom' in the world of older firearms is that bluing over pitting is something that shouldn't be done. Looking at the result here, I just love it when such conventional wisdom is turned on its head. I think your solution is very good.

Was the old rust removed before bluing, if so how was it removed? I've read about immersion in a solution bath/application of electrodes, and wonder if that was used here.

DonVoigt · 08-24-2015, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4 Scale

It's very enjoyable to see your end result. It is if you have "frozen" the pistol in its present condition, awaiting the time or resources or technology to complete the restoration.

The 'conventional wisdom' in the world of older firearms is that bluing over pitting is something that shouldn't be done. Looking at the result here, I just love it when such conventional wisdom is turned on its head. I think your solution is very good.

Was the old rust removed before bluing, if so how was it removed? I've read about immersion in a solution bath/application of electrodes, and wonder if that was used here.

4 scale,
thanks- what to do was indeed a puzzle. But as you say, at least it is stable at present- and useable

As to de-rusting, I used a fine wire wheel. The rust blueing actually removes any rust as part of the process, since converting the surface to "rust or iron oxide" is the mechanism of rust blueing.

I was not satisfied with the look of the side plate, and have spent an hour or so this pm mechanically removing pits from it. It will be better, but I can't get them all without filing and sanding all the metal away! Will send it back to Mr. Danner to but the finish back on it.

4 Scale · 08-27-2015, 08:10 PM

As far as your side plate goes, you might ask Charles about that. I asked him once about TIG welding and he mentioned he has access to that. Perhaps you could adopt just the side plate as a project and weld in the larger pits you cannot sand or file out. Even when you cannot restore an entire piece, there is satisfaction to be had by doing a part of it.

DonVoigt · 08-29-2015, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4 Scale

As far as your side plate goes, you might ask Charles about that. I asked him once about TIG welding and he mentioned he has access to that. Perhaps you could adopt just the side plate as a project and weld in the larger pits you cannot sand or file out. Even when you cannot restore an entire piece, there is satisfaction to be had by doing a part of it.

That is a possibility, but I think I'm ok with the progress so far on
"improving" the side plate. A completely "pit free" side plate would not look right either.

I also found and re-strawed a commercially numbered take down lever, which looks much better to me.

Current status and before pictures below.

I need to do a little more work on the side plate to straighten up the raised part.

08-11-2015, 10:20 AM	#28
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 4,355 Times in 2,041 Posts	Well, sort of bad news this am. Seems the frame will have to live on with its full complement of Pitting. I had sent it to Mr. Danner for evaluation and received this response: "Received frame yesterday. The condition is worse than I would care to take on. Welding would be chancey for burn-through. Sorry. I will get it on the way back to you." I will work on a couple small areas with a draw file and paper myself, but basically it will remain as we see it! Attached Thumbnails

08-16-2015, 09:45 AM	#33
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I would pass on doing this one too. Life is too short and I am too old. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

08-23-2015, 11:48 PM	#36
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 4,355 Times in 2,041 Posts	August 23, 2015 Update Got the rust blued '06 frame back from C. Danner, a couple pictures are below after I strawed the small parts today and got it back together. I let the mag release get too hot and it ran to blue, so when motivated, I'll do it over. Danner's rust blue is nearly an exact match for the original blue as seen on the original upper and original finish grip safety. That ugly side plate is an original number "11"; some day I may work on it to remove pits and have Danner re-blue it, again. I do need to find a commercial take down lever, #11 would be nice. So, it is finished for now. Will fire it again tomorrow and expect it to do as well as it did before, which is to say no "problems" at all. It is a cool shooter, and doesn't look bad at all from 5 feet away! Pictures from today and three from the "original" condition. Attached Thumbnails

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08-03-2015, 06:33 PM	#21
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,138 Times in 2,176 Posts	TKS I found some minor pitting under a grip and then on only one side. It amazes me I do own some that are basically pristene. Usually they were early commercials which have never seen war like conditions. Caveat Emptor, If a WW1 Imperial is looks perfect get another opinions or more! We have some of the finest friendly experts available. Nothing wrong with natural life marks and all are parts of their history. The problem is when one tries to reverse the obvious. Every luger has a story, past and now a future. They are valuable in every condition. Eric

08-03-2015, 07:14 PM	#22
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,138 Times in 2,176 Posts	Don and Dave you have opened another view of luger collecting. Ted first opened my eyes! So many parts have deemed worthless and discarded. I've taken another view of luger collection and definitely another new market! Success! Eric

08-03-2015, 08:27 PM	#23
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	I sure hope you plan to fire this gun in a highly controlled manner.....a remote method for trigger pull with shielding for protection......too many accidental opportunities here......tom

08-04-2015, 01:43 PM	#27
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 4,355 Times in 2,041 Posts	8-4-16 FIRING UPDATE Loads, fires, and ejects properly and in general shoots great! I didn't fire for accuracy, which depends on how well I can see the sights or the target! I can't see both at the same time. Thanks again to all who helped with parts and advice.

08-11-2015, 11:13 AM	#29
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Have you run this by Thor? Some craftsman's "no" is another's challenge.

08-12-2015, 12:47 AM	#31
lfid Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wichita, KS USA Posts: 453 Thanks: 573 Thanked 96 Times in 53 Posts	what about welding up using a henrob type gas torch, fine point heat etc ? I once saw at a swap meet a factory rep rejoin a very thin sliced steel can nearly perfectly with henrob. seems like it was steel coffee can. weld was perfect and no metal warping, slightly beaded up ridge at the joined seam. burn thru with electric arc I can appreciate that ! good luck Bill

08-16-2015, 09:54 AM	#34
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	You may want to look into laser welding. A good laser welder can weld on a square mm without ruining the underlying or surrounding material. It doesn't even affect the hardening.

08-16-2015, 08:13 PM	#35
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 4,355 Times in 2,041 Posts	Thanks Vilm and Thor. I've not seen or hear of laser welding around here; makes sense that it could do fine work. But I'm guessing the cost would be pretty steep for a frame "covered" with pitting. I may have hit the point of diminishing returns as Thor observes. If it were one of a kind or even one of a few, it would be somewhat different. It works as it is, the history is still there in spite of it's neglected condition.

08-24-2015, 10:42 AM	#37
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 490 Times in 251 Posts	It's very enjoyable to see your end result. It is if you have "frozen" the pistol in its present condition, awaiting the time or resources or technology to complete the restoration. The 'conventional wisdom' in the world of older firearms is that bluing over pitting is something that shouldn't be done. Looking at the result here, I just love it when such conventional wisdom is turned on its head. I think your solution is very good. Was the old rust removed before bluing, if so how was it removed? I've read about immersion in a solution bath/application of electrodes, and wonder if that was used here.

08-27-2015, 08:10 PM	#39
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 490 Times in 251 Posts	As far as your side plate goes, you might ask Charles about that. I asked him once about TIG welding and he mentioned he has access to that. Perhaps you could adopt just the side plate as a project and weld in the larger pits you cannot sand or file out. Even when you cannot restore an entire piece, there is satisfaction to be had by doing a part of it.