www.lugerforum.com Technical Info Production Info Table 3 - Page 2

Ron Wood · 07-22-2015, 11:40 AM

I would also like to see photos of the magazine. It is interesting that a full sized Luger could feed, fire and function with a round that is almost 20% shorter than either a 9mm or 7.65mm round. Overall length (OAL) of the cartridge is one of the critical factors in proper functioning of a Luger. Even one or two millimeters off in OAL frequently contributes to "stovepipes" or failure to feed.

The only .32 ACP Luger that is documented is the diminutive "Baby" Luger that was constructed by head engineer Heinrich Hoffmann at BKIW in 1925/26 under the supervision of Herr August Weiss.

sheepherder · 07-22-2015, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

The only .32 ACP Luger that is documented is the diminutive "Baby" Luger that was constructed by head engineer Heinrich Hoffmann at BKIW in 1925/26 under the supervision of Herr August Weiss.

Datig & Walter extracts below.

It is interesting that the 'baby' Luger is not the same as the 'pocket' Luger. The 'pocket' Luger is the one with the short barrel and short gripframe/magazine; the 'baby' is quite different in construction, although it also has a shorter barrel & gripframe.

Sergio Natali · 07-22-2015, 12:19 PM

"DWM 1900 DWM 1900/06 W+F 1906 and W+F 1906/29 do not have any stock lug

Some sort of stock lug can be found on 1900 and 1906 "American Eagle" DWM lugers fitted with smooth Ideal stock walnut grips to match the US made Ideal stock."

Just to be a bit more specific I enclose some close pictures of te above mentioned sort of "stock lug"

To Eric, thanks a lot, but honestly sometimes I also make a lot of mistakes.

Sergio

Ron Wood · 07-23-2015, 11:57 AM

The "pocket" Lugers you refer to are actually custom alterations of full size Lugers. The grip frame was cut, a section removed and a welded/silver soldered back together. A shorter barrel was installed. One such custom piece was the personal property of Georg Luger himself.

The late John Martz used that concept to create his custom "baby" Lugers. I have finally acquired one of his masterpieces and I am particularly pleased that it was fabricated from a Model 1900 American Eagle...one of my favorites.

sheepherder · 07-23-2015, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

The "pocket" Lugers you refer to are actually custom alterations of full size Lugers...

That's actually Fred Datig's designation - see below.

Mike Krause made recreations of the "Baby" [in 32ACP!], as shown on Bob Adams web site (and pic below) -

http://www.adamsguns.com/luger45.htm

Zorba · 07-23-2015, 12:49 PM

LOVE those grips!

rhuff · 07-23-2015, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

The "pocket" Lugers you refer to are actually custom alterations of full size Lugers. The grip frame was cut, a section removed and a welded/silver soldered back together. A shorter barrel was installed. One such custom piece was the personal property of Georg Luger himself.

The late John Martz used that concept to create his custom "baby" Lugers. I have finally acquired one of his masterpieces and I am particularly pleased that it was fabricated from a Model 1900 American Eagle...one of my favorites.

That Luger is just awesome!! I can't imagine having that piece in my safe.

Sergio Natali · 07-23-2015, 01:22 PM

Zorba

I agree lovely grips, wooden grips are aestetically the most beautiful; as for the rest I'm a bit of a purist, some sort of "Luger Integralist"... I wouldn't really share all this appreciation about recent custom alterations...

Sergio

Ron Wood · 07-23-2015, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luger.parabellum

Zorba

I agree lovely grips, wooden grips are aestetically the most beautiful; as for the rest I'm a bit of a purist, some sort of "Luger Integralist"... I wouldn't really share all this appreciation about recent custom alterations...

Sergio

Sergio,
I agree that altering a collectible Luger is not an acceptable practice. But both the Martz gun and the one I have been working on are an accumulation of mis-matched and damaged parts that are assembled into a functioning custom gun. No history is being lost, it is just being recycled in a different format.

sheepherder · 07-23-2015, 08:07 PM

A 'member'

at ARFCOM did a 'pocket' Luger back in 2004 for a raffle at American Handgunner. The thread is archived, but the pics are still online -

Thor340 [Member] 2/23/2004 6:59:51 AM EDT

This Luger will be raffled off next year in the American Handgunner. I finished it in the white and have sent it to Brian Powley engravers for a full engraving treatment. I have petitioned him to do it in a German Oak Leaf and Acorn pattern and I sure hope he will. I will rust blue it after he is done with the engraving. The gun was made from a shooter Luger by Neil Keller at Kustom Ballistics. Here are the websites and pictures. The barrel is 2 & 5/8" and in 9mm Luger (Para.)

http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman...ugerD2EXIF.jpg
http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman...ugerD1EXIF.jpg
www.powleyengraving.com/
www.kustom-ballistics.com/

It may be on his site as well, I haven't checked it out in quite some time...

Ted's Luger Strawing Service
http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/

cirelaw · 07-23-2015, 01:46 PM

Mike Krause guns~ http://www.adamsguns.com/luger45.htm

Ron Wood · 07-23-2015, 04:53 PM

Since acquiring the Martz gun I have been inspired to finish the "baby" I started to create about 30 years ago and never got around to finishing it. I like the grips on mine too!

sheepherder · 07-23-2015, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Since acquiring the Martz gun I have been inspired to finish the "baby" I started to create about 30 years ago and never got around to finishing it. I like the grips on mine too!

Ummm...Where's the barrel???

Ron Wood · 07-23-2015, 07:07 PM

I believe I mentioned I haven't gotten around to finishing it

. Finding a long thread barrel (for the long receiver) has proven to be difficult, but I have one now.
By the way, thanks for the thread chaser...I haven't gotten around to using it either!

cirelaw · 07-23-2015, 07:21 PM

Ted gave me permission to post this picture in Ralphs' home many years ago!.

cirelaw · 07-23-2015, 08:02 PM

Good For You you both!

Ron Wood · 07-23-2015, 09:03 PM

Getting back to Yoda's original post, I would really like to see the requested photos. The gun is a puzzle and will not be resolved without some visual images...perhaps not even then, but without some graphic information we are without any clue.

cirelaw · 07-27-2015, 06:48 PM

If this maybe assistance. Many years ago before his death I sent John a copy of this book~ He died shortly there after~ The carbine on the back cover is his! I don't mean to trespass but I feel its relevant to the discussion~~sorry~~Eric

Ron Wood · 07-27-2015, 08:19 PM

Eric,
What does that have to do with this topic?

cirelaw · 07-27-2015, 08:53 PM

I removed the thread about the war. That was misplaced! As john Martz was being discussed I posted what I had of him~ Ron. Thank you for looking out for me~~~~~

07-22-2015, 11:40 AM	#1
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	I would also like to see photos of the magazine. It is interesting that a full sized Luger could feed, fire and function with a round that is almost 20% shorter than either a 9mm or 7.65mm round. Overall length (OAL) of the cartridge is one of the critical factors in proper functioning of a Luger. Even one or two millimeters off in OAL frequently contributes to "stovepipes" or failure to feed. The only .32 ACP Luger that is documented is the diminutive "Baby" Luger that was constructed by head engineer Heinrich Hoffmann at BKIW in 1925/26 under the supervision of Herr August Weiss. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-22-2015, 12:19 PM	#3
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	"DWM 1900 DWM 1900/06 W+F 1906 and W+F 1906/29 do not have any stock lug Some sort of stock lug can be found on 1900 and 1906 "American Eagle" DWM lugers fitted with smooth Ideal stock walnut grips to match the US made Ideal stock." Just to be a bit more specific I enclose some close pictures of te above mentioned sort of "stock lug" To Eric, thanks a lot, but honestly sometimes I also make a lot of mistakes. Sergio Attached Thumbnails Attached Images __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

07-23-2015, 11:57 AM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	The "pocket" Lugers you refer to are actually custom alterations of full size Lugers. The grip frame was cut, a section removed and a welded/silver soldered back together. A shorter barrel was installed. One such custom piece was the personal property of Georg Luger himself. The late John Martz used that concept to create his custom "baby" Lugers. I have finally acquired one of his masterpieces and I am particularly pleased that it was fabricated from a Model 1900 American Eagle...one of my favorites. Attached Thumbnails __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-23-2015, 01:22 PM	#8
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Zorba I agree lovely grips, wooden grips are aestetically the most beautiful; as for the rest I'm a bit of a purist, some sort of "Luger Integralist"... I wouldn't really share all this appreciation about recent custom alterations... Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

07-23-2015, 08:07 PM	#10
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	A 'member' at ARFCOM did a 'pocket' Luger back in 2004 for a raffle at American Handgunner. The thread is archived, but the pics are still online - Thor340 [Member] 2/23/2004 6:59:51 AM EDT This Luger will be raffled off next year in the American Handgunner. I finished it in the white and have sent it to Brian Powley engravers for a full engraving treatment. I have petitioned him to do it in a German Oak Leaf and Acorn pattern and I sure hope he will. I will rust blue it after he is done with the engraving. The gun was made from a shooter Luger by Neil Keller at Kustom Ballistics. Here are the websites and pictures. The barrel is 2 & 5/8" and in 9mm Luger (Para.) http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman...ugerD2EXIF.jpg http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman...ugerD1EXIF.jpg www.powleyengraving.com/ www.kustom-ballistics.com/ It may be on his site as well, I haven't checked it out in quite some time... Ted's Luger Strawing Service http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

07-23-2015, 12:49 PM	#6
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 952 Thanks: 777 Thanked 528 Times in 290 Posts	LOVE those grips!

07-23-2015, 01:46 PM	#11
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,138 Times in 2,176 Posts	Mike Krause guns~ http://www.adamsguns.com/luger45.htm

07-23-2015, 04:53 PM	#12
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Since acquiring the Martz gun I have been inspired to finish the "baby" I started to create about 30 years ago and never got around to finishing it. I like the grips on mine too! Attached Thumbnails __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-23-2015, 07:07 PM	#14
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	I believe I mentioned I haven't gotten around to finishing it . Finding a long thread barrel (for the long receiver) has proven to be difficult, but I have one now. By the way, thanks for the thread chaser...I haven't gotten around to using it either! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-23-2015, 07:21 PM	#15
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,138 Times in 2,176 Posts	Ted gave me permission to post this picture in Ralphs' home many years ago!. Attached Thumbnails

07-23-2015, 08:02 PM	#16
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,138 Times in 2,176 Posts	Good For You you both!

07-23-2015, 09:03 PM	#17
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Getting back to Yoda's original post, I would really like to see the requested photos. The gun is a puzzle and will not be resolved without some visual images...perhaps not even then, but without some graphic information we are without any clue. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-27-2015, 06:48 PM	#18
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,138 Times in 2,176 Posts	If this maybe assistance. Many years ago before his death I sent John a copy of this book~ He died shortly there after~ The carbine on the back cover is his! I don't mean to trespass but I feel its relevant to the discussion~~sorry~~Eric Attached Thumbnails

07-27-2015, 08:19 PM	#19
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Eric, What does that have to do with this topic? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-27-2015, 08:53 PM	#20
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,138 Times in 2,176 Posts	I removed the thread about the war. That was misplaced! As john Martz was being discussed I posted what I had of him~ Ron. Thank you for looking out for me~~~~~

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