Two K Date Sub Variations - Page 2

DonVoigt · 07-09-2015, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LU1900

The barrel length following the Treaty of Versailles was to be max 100 m/m

Point was moot, i.e. 100mm max, in 1934 after re-armament started, maybe even after 1928 when the IMKK left Germany.
JMHO.

Edward Tinker · 07-09-2015, 10:40 AM

Very cool Dick!

These are the five variations (not that i know anything about them) from a late friends collection - shows a close up of the four barrel bands and the rest - they are all K dates.....

Sergio Natali · 07-09-2015, 10:54 AM

Dick

Really great guns, thanks a lot for your interesting exposition, I've got a K date too # 9114 should be a 4th sub variation.

Thanks again an regards

Sergio

Dick Herman · 07-09-2015, 03:53 PM

Sergio,
The Gortz & Sturgess encyclopedia states that there are no inspection marks after 91XX. The inspection mark is the funny shaped S on all the K date P.08 parts. If your pistol does not have all the S marks you probably have a 4th sub-variation K date.

Still's "Third Reich Lugers" lists the production of the K date at 10,930. Combine the information from both reference sources indicates there were approximately 800 4th sub-variation K date lugers manufactured. A rare variation.

Ed,
It looks like you cornered the market on K date Lugers. I am impressed.

Edward Tinker · 07-09-2015, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Herman

.

Ed,
It looks like you cornered the market on K date Lugers. I am impressed.

I wish, I believe they are all still sitting at his house (he passed away 5 years ago?)

Ed

drbuster · 07-09-2015, 05:12 PM

K date lugers have always been fascinating. Mauser's first attempt of a completely manufactured luger. It was almost like they were trying different things to "get it right". One finding not mentioned in this thread is the coming and going of the Mauser "hump" which appears to be at random throughout the K date production. I believe one of the two examples of Dick Herman's shows the hump. It's hard for me to postulate why this feature, supposedly to prevent the loss/migration of the rear receiver pin, would randomly come and go only to appear for good in late 1937 until the end of production.

CAP Black · 07-09-2015, 09:21 PM

Any serial numbers tied to the different variations?
I have a K date?
Thanks
Jack

Dick Herman · 07-09-2015, 10:08 PM

Once again from the Gortz & Sturgess encyclopedia K date reference.

The principle way to identify the different K date Sub-Variations is the S style inspection markings on the small parts.

1st Sub-Variation has Fraktur S (Funny S) on sn less than 17xx.
2nd Sub-Variation has Fraktur S and Roman S between sn 17xx and 56xx.
3rd Sub-Variation had Roman S between sn 56xx and 91xx.
4th Sub-Variation has no small part S markings above 91xx

Also the 1st and 2nd Sub-Variations also utilize a Fraktur S (Funny S) on the toggle link S/42. Subsequent K dates have a Roman S on the toggle link S/42.

I just realized my 2nd sub-variation is numbered beyond the published serial number range, sn 5970. It has all the characteristics of a 2nd variation, it could be transitional or just one the authors had no information on.

Sergio Natali · 07-10-2015, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Herman

Sergio,
The Gortz & Sturgess encyclopedia states that there are no inspection marks after 91XX. The inspection mark is the funny shaped S on all the K date P.08 parts. If your pistol does not have all the S marks you probably have a 4th sub-variation K date.

Still's "Third Reich Lugers" lists the production of the K date at 10,930. Combine the information from both reference sources indicates there were approximately 800 4th sub-variation K date lugers manufactured. A rare variation.

Ed,
It looks like you cornered the market on K date Lugers. I am impressed.

Dick,
thanks again for your reference, I haven't got Gortz & Sturgess book, but on page 106 of Still's "Third Reich Lugers" and from pictures on page 17 and following made me come to conclusion that I have a sbv 4 (without the hump).
Regards.

Sergio

sheepherder · 07-10-2015, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luger.parabellum

Dick,
thanks again for your reference, I haven't got Gortz & Sturgess book...

Sergio, you can buy the 3-volume book set on DVD from Simpson's here in the US. Cost is minimal [$35USD + S&H]; if you are interested instructions are in last page of this thread -

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=29036

07-09-2015, 10:54 AM	#23
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Dick Really great guns, thanks a lot for your interesting exposition, I've got a K date too # 9114 should be a 4th sub variation. Thanks again an regards Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

07-09-2015, 10:08 PM	#28
Dick Herman User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 302 Thanks: 496 Thanked 356 Times in 138 Posts	Once again from the Gortz & Sturgess encyclopedia K date reference. The principle way to identify the different K date Sub-Variations is the S style inspection markings on the small parts. 1st Sub-Variation has Fraktur S (Funny S) on sn less than 17xx. 2nd Sub-Variation has Fraktur S and Roman S between sn 17xx and 56xx. 3rd Sub-Variation had Roman S between sn 56xx and 91xx. 4th Sub-Variation has no small part S markings above 91xx Also the 1st and 2nd Sub-Variations also utilize a Fraktur S (Funny S) on the toggle link S/42. Subsequent K dates have a Roman S on the toggle link S/42. I just realized my 2nd sub-variation is numbered beyond the published serial number range, sn 5970. It has all the characteristics of a 2nd variation, it could be transitional or just one the authors had no information on. Last edited by Dick Herman; 07-09-2015 at 10:15 PM. Reason: Addition info

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07-09-2015, 03:53 PM	#24
Dick Herman User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 302 Thanks: 496 Thanked 356 Times in 138 Posts	Sergio, The Gortz & Sturgess encyclopedia states that there are no inspection marks after 91XX. The inspection mark is the funny shaped S on all the K date P.08 parts. If your pistol does not have all the S marks you probably have a 4th sub-variation K date. Still's "Third Reich Lugers" lists the production of the K date at 10,930. Combine the information from both reference sources indicates there were approximately 800 4th sub-variation K date lugers manufactured. A rare variation. Ed, It looks like you cornered the market on K date Lugers. I am impressed.

07-09-2015, 05:12 PM	#26
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	K date lugers have always been fascinating. Mauser's first attempt of a completely manufactured luger. It was almost like they were trying different things to "get it right". One finding not mentioned in this thread is the coming and going of the Mauser "hump" which appears to be at random throughout the K date production. I believe one of the two examples of Dick Herman's shows the hump. It's hard for me to postulate why this feature, supposedly to prevent the loss/migration of the rear receiver pin, would randomly come and go only to appear for good in late 1937 until the end of production.

07-09-2015, 09:21 PM	#27
CAP Black User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Fairmont, WV Right here in Mountaineer country and God's country Posts: 767 Thanks: 100 Thanked 174 Times in 96 Posts	Any serial numbers tied to the different variations? I have a K date? Thanks Jack