Looking for more info. BYF 41 SN-3877

[Sergio Natali]

For what can be seen from the pictures it looks like a fine gun, especially if it's all matching (except the mags)

Sergio

[Yukon Jack]

Thanks again for the replies. Grips are original according to the gunsmith that looked at it and he did refer to it as a black widow. Can't tell if the punctuation between the P and the 08 is square or round. I know it's a very long shot but if the mag(s) were out there somewhere I certainly would like to acquire them. Any information on the mags I do have would be appreciated. Also are there any references out there that might give detailed information about the gun I have? Branch it was issued to, who it was issued to, etc.?

[guns3545]

Jack,

Thanks for the additional information and pictures.

Unfortunately it is difficult to say where this pistol was issued and used. Most information about provenance comes when a vet has brought it back and supplied information where and how it was captured. Generally speaking, guns that have seen combat are well worn and guns that have not, or have been assigned to non-front line units are in better shape. But these are only assumptions.

In the s-block, about 7400 guns went to the Army, 2400 to the Luftwaffe mainly for Air Defense and Paratroop Units. The Navy received the remaining 200 or so guns. THESE ARE ESTIMATES. There is no good way to know. We used to be able identify Navy guns by their unit markings but this practice was stopped in 1940.

Question: Are both magazines marked the same?. I cannot tell. The lower magazine is a Haenel made (that's code 122), accepted by the inspector located there, Eagle 37. From the serial number it was originally issued with a 1940 code 42 gun. Early byf guns would have been equipped with this magazine type but only to about the p-block. Later guns would have Haenel (code was changed to fxo in 1941), also inspected and accepted by Eagle 37.

The type 6, black plastic base magazines started to appear around mid-year.

Can't tell, but I doubt that the body of the magazine has an upside down P.08 stamped on it. The P.08 marking requirement only came into effect on January 1, 1941.

I don't need to tell you that finding even one matching magazine will be difficult. As I mentioned, this gun was manufactured when the transition from serial numbered to non-serial numbered magazines was occurring, so it is entirely possible that a fxo 37 magazine with an unmarked aluminum bottom would be the type issued originally with the gun. Still difficult to find plain bottom but infinitely easier than finding matching serials.

The fall back plan employed by many collectors would be: "Well it is theoretically possible that a Type 6 magazine would have been issued with the gun, (and besides it already has black plastic grip panels on it) so let me go and buy a couple magazines." This plan is eminently doable. All is takes is a few dollars and care to insure that you are buying an original fxo type 6 magazine. Counterfeits abound!!

Hope this helps.

John

[El Syd]

Jack - beautiful luger. the finish looks great. is it original or has it been re-blued? I'm a newby as well, so hopefully I am not insulting you when I ask this question.

The guys on this forum really know their lugers and have helped me tremendously in my quest for a couple of lugers. Welcome to the forum, syd

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Yukon Jack

This according to the gunsmith that examined it...

Originally Posted by Yukon Jack

Grips are original according to the gunsmith that looked at it and he did refer to it as a black widow...

"Gunsmiths", "dealers", "relatives of the vet who brought it back" stories and descriptions all need to be taken with a grain of salt.

My LGS is a great guy but is not knowledgeable about Lugers or pretty much anything military. He started a business to earn a living, meaning he is a JOATAMON.

John/guns3545 seems knowledgeable and his comments are certainly illuminating. I'm not a collector but what he has told you is way more than any other single Luger I've read about here in six years.

Lugers have passed through many hands over the years. Some owners have 'improved' them by substituting parts that may not have been original. Grips come to mind immediately. Bakelite grips are to my mind more desirable than plastic and can be distinguished by methods described elsewhere in this forum [Search].

Nice Luger; hopefully the first of many.