Borchardt-Luger Controversy

Doubs · 08-03-2002, 05:03 PM

Hi Kyrie,

An interesting thread, indeed! I submit, however, that the recoil spring does, in fact, act to keep the mechanical lock you speak of locked. Another experiment will clearly demonstrate this.

Disengage the recoil spring and see how much force it requires to "break" the mechanical lock of the toggle train. It will be, of course, less than with the recoil spring engaged. But, there is resistance from the very beginning of the movement of the breechblock, caused by the firing pin spring/sear/sear notch of the firing pin all causing friction. Turn the whole thing over and even with a sharp downward movement and sudden stop, the train remains in battery.

Now remove the firing pin, FP spring and keeper. Reassemble only the "cannon". There is now no main spring tension and no friction from the firing pin components. Suddenly, the force needed to break the mechanical lock of the toggle train is practically nothing. Turning the cannon over and with a short drop and stop, the mechanical lock will break without fail.

With the firing pin components still removed, reassemble the cannon to the frame and engage the recoil spring. Try to break the toggle train's mechanical lock and you'll find considerable force is needed from the very beginning as the recoil spring exerts considerable downward force on the whole train... conclusive proof that the recoil spring not only applies pressure through out the toggle train's full range of motion but also helps to keep it locked in battery while working against pressure from the firing pin components when cocked.

The mechanical lock you speak of can be demonstrated by disconnecting the recoil spring and then cocking the firing pin and lowering the toggle train into battery. Without the mechanical lock, the firing pin spring would pop the toggles upward. Push upward slightly on the toggles and they will spring to the broken position. If the recoil spring didn't exert force on the toggle train while in battery, the slighest pressure against the toggles would cause them to break when the firing pin was cocked. It takes considerably more force with the recoil spring engaged than with it disengaged.

So, while I acknowledge that the mechanical lock does exist, I still maintain that it's the recoil spring pressure on the toggle train that acts to keep it in battery and is more of a factor than the mechanical lock which will almost fall open on it's own when force from the recoil spring and firing pin components are absent.

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08-03-2002, 05:03 PM	#1
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 819 Thanked 1,769 Times in 586 Posts	Hi Kyrie, An interesting thread, indeed! I submit, however, that the recoil spring does, in fact, act to keep the mechanical lock you speak of locked. Another experiment will clearly demonstrate this. Disengage the recoil spring and see how much force it requires to "break" the mechanical lock of the toggle train. It will be, of course, less than with the recoil spring engaged. But, there is resistance from the very beginning of the movement of the breechblock, caused by the firing pin spring/sear/sear notch of the firing pin all causing friction. Turn the whole thing over and even with a sharp downward movement and sudden stop, the train remains in battery. Now remove the firing pin, FP spring and keeper. Reassemble only the "cannon". There is now no main spring tension and no friction from the firing pin components. Suddenly, the force needed to break the mechanical lock of the toggle train is practically nothing. Turning the cannon over and with a short drop and stop, the mechanical lock will break without fail. With the firing pin components still removed, reassemble the cannon to the frame and engage the recoil spring. Try to break the toggle train's mechanical lock and you'll find considerable force is needed from the very beginning as the recoil spring exerts considerable downward force on the whole train... conclusive proof that the recoil spring not only applies pressure through out the toggle train's full range of motion but also helps to keep it locked in battery while working against pressure from the firing pin components when cocked. The mechanical lock you speak of can be demonstrated by disconnecting the recoil spring and then cocking the firing pin and lowering the toggle train into battery. Without the mechanical lock, the firing pin spring would pop the toggles upward. Push upward slightly on the toggles and they will spring to the broken position. If the recoil spring didn't exert force on the toggle train while in battery, the slighest pressure against the toggles would cause them to break when the firing pin was cocked. It takes considerably more force with the recoil spring engaged than with it disengaged. So, while I acknowledge that the mechanical lock does exist, I still maintain that it's the recoil spring pressure on the toggle train that acts to keep it in battery and is more of a factor than the mechanical lock which will almost fall open on it's own when force from the recoil spring and firing pin components are absent.