Erfurt 1918

[danielsand]

Originally Posted by CAP Black

Perhaps the right time for a serious thought: we are but custodians of these items and part of our task is to preserve and save for posterity. Breaking and replacing doesn't really fit into that duty and responsibility.
We uphold your right to your decision; the rest is up to you.
Just my 2 cents.
Jack

I know Jack. I've been collecting firearms since 1960s. the same dilemma was always present. And not only in the gun collecting community. For example,....the high end watch collecting is the same. MANY people pay upward of 100K for a rare, collectable watch, and stick it in the safe. never enjoying it. They are made to be worn. And I can see it in the case of NIB piece, but not if it was worn before.

Same with this Parabellum I was given. Original finish is WORN, straw is disappearing, it has few thousand (maybe more) rounds down the barrel, .....so what's the harm? Parts DO break, and they get replaced. I have two classic Jaguars (among others) in my garrage. With MANY new parts. The ONLY people that care about "matching" numbers, are serious collectors of VERY valuable and/or historical pieces (regardless of which product we are talking about). My Parabellum is none of the above. It survived who knows how many "owners" before me, and I'm sure it will outlive me. It was fired by the previous owner MANY times (his widow says), and it will be fired by me. With so many to choose from, it will not be fired much.

And the comment about being "the custodians" of these pieces, is exactly what I've been telling my family for decades. We can never "own" them, they "live" way longer than us. My guns are my tools, and I use them as such. They get the loving care in terms of cleaning, lubing, etc. and I never "ask" them to do something they are not made for. I also have a fully equipped machine shop on my ranch, and there is no part I can not make from scratch if needs to be.

There are MANY parts for P08 available. Some NOS, some from the other (less fortunate) guns. Parts can be "matched" by hand fitting, old (broken part) saved, and given to the next generation as such. I don't sell guns. (I only buy), so the "value" to me is what I can DO with the gun, and not how much I can get for it.

Since I spent 20+ years in the uniform, I am "anal retentive" (my wife's comment), and I don't stop with ANY research until I know EVERYTHING about it. So when I joined this forum, I was (and still am) reading EVERY post in this section (military P08). There are many posts on this same subject, and one caught my attention. The guy inherited grandfather's pistol, and was wondering to shoot or not. One poster told him (and I am paraphrazing here) "if shooting it, connects you with your grandfather, DO IT!" That's the best advice I've ever heard. Using this pistol as it was intended, connects me with all the history, and previous "custodians" that used it before me.

Just wanted to explain MY thinking on the subject, and I do respect the opinion of "the other side" of this eternal argument.

BTW, guys, I'm still hoping someone can tell me something about the alloy bottomed mag?

Thanks, and sorry for the long post. In my case,....short posts can easily be misunderstood, and I just wanted to explain MY thinking on the subject.

[ithacaartist]

Mag is early WWII military, before the machined FXO bodies became the standard, but after the wooden-bottomed examples.

Around G or K date? (edit)<<<No, it's not...my mistake!

[John Sabato]

Welcome to the Lugerforum from another Army Retiree...

[Curss]

Sounds like another Erfurt has found a good home. Gotta love that crown stamped on the toggle.

[danielsand]

Originally Posted by Curss

Sounds like another Erfurt has found a good home. Gotta love that crown stamped on the toggle.

Yes! The crown depicts some more valiant times, and somehow connects me with my family history. I am German by ancestry (50%,....Mother was Austrian), and my family was HEAVILY involved in WW2. My grandfather (paternal) was a high ranking officer in the Imperial Germany, and never had any likes for Hitler, and his cronies (KIA in 1915).

My father, on the other hand, was a mid level officer in Abwehr, and after the war, served as a diplomat for the U.S. (emigrated to US in 1947, and started to work for State Department the following year).

So this old warhorse will have a nice home, it will be taken care off, and shot occasionally. Mostly it will be used as a "night stand" gun, and sometimes it will have a duty to scare off mountain lions, and coyotes off the ranch (I don't kill them, I just want them away from the livestock).

At this time, I am looking into buying a repro holster for it (Uhlan), so I can take it on horseback, when I'm "riding fences".

[spacecoast]

My grandfather (paternal) was a high ranking officer in the Imperial Germany, and never had any likes for Hitler, and his cronies (KIA in 1915)

Did Hitler have "cronies" in 1915?

Same with this Parabellum I was given. Original finish is WORN, straw is disappearing, it has few thousand (maybe more) rounds down the barrel, .....so what's the harm?

But I thought in your first post you said it was MINT?

This past X-mas, a family friend showed up with a present! 1918 Erfurt in MINT condition, with two mags (one matched, one mismatched), and the original holster, with loading tool.

[Geo99]

Welcome Daniel,

Your aluminum bottom mag is from 1937-38, it was standard issue for Army Lugers.

I feel like I should let you know -
I personally would not use a 1918 Luger as a "nightstand" gun, and I'm not sure I would not keep the mag loaded all the time. Once I did this for a year and it weakened the spring to the point it started having FTF. Or maybe it was just a crappy mag.

IMO a Luger is a work of art, tough, and accurate, but is not a very good defensive or carry weapon these days. (I would never say don't shoot it - just don't stake your life on it - there are far better and cheaper alternatives for that).

Of course it is your gun and I hope you enjoy it, however you choose to.

- Geo

[danielsand]

Originally Posted by spacecoast

Did Hitler have "cronies" in 1915?



But I thought in your first post you said it was MINT?

Yes,...the line of the cronies should've been attributed to my Dad, but my Dad's political views were withouth a doubt influenced by his father, and the rest of the family. Like I said before,......I almost ALWAYS have to write a long diatribe, in order to express myself in writing.

"MINT", is in the eyes of beholder,.....look at the posted pictures, and YOU tell me. The pistol has a low round count, the barrel is sound and shiny, and it functions perfectly. No,...it's not "MINT" cosmetically, but it is mechanically.

I did not know that there are people on this forum, that will dissect every word, and call me out on everything I post! Pictures are there, (and I tried to oblige with every request). Since I speak (read and write) few languages (on a daily basis), I sometimes have a problem expressing myself, especially in writing on the Internet.

Now I am just waiting for the "grammar police" to chime in!

[danielsand]

Originally Posted by Geo99

Welcome Daniel,

Your aluminum bottom mag is from 1937-38, it was standard issue for Army Lugers.

I feel like I should let you know -
I personally would not use a 1918 Luger as a "nightstand" gun, and I'm not sure I would not keep the mag loaded all the time. Once I did this for a year and it weakened the spring to the point it started having FTF. Or maybe it was just a crappy mag.

IMO a Luger is a work of art, tough, and accurate, but is not a very good defensive or carry weapon these days. (I would never say don't shoot it - just don't stake your life on it - there are far better and cheaper alternatives for that).

Of course it is your gun and I hope you enjoy it, however you choose to.

- Geo

Thank you Geo. I already got two modern magazines for the piece (got them yesterday, from a friend of a friend), and since I DO rotate the "nightstand" weapon weekly, I don't think there will be any harm to them. The old mags, are in the safe, and unloaded.

My SD pistols of choice are Glocks, and I never leave my ranch without one.

Thank you for the info on the mag.

[cirelaw]

Is there one numbered part most prone to break during fireing. Does it make a difference on the type of ammo being used? Eric...

[DavidJayUden]

I don't know of any ONE numbered part that is more prone to failure. If there were it would probably be the extractor, but you see a lot of mis-numbered hold opens too. Of course the ejector spring is a crap shoot.
I'm probably one of the few who have actually broken an upper barrel extension. Broke that Baby right in half on an Artillery...
It would be nice if the list was short to make cautionary replacement simple, but IMHO it is not.
dju

[alanint]

My guess would have been the firing pin among the most broken parts.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by alanint

My guess would have been the firing pin among the most broken parts.

there is a survey here somewhere where the incidence of breakage is tallied by individual part. Working from the ol' rusty memory, Ejector was #1, then F.P., extractor, and GRIPS! Search for it!

All the parts mentioned in the survey are easy enough to swap for shooting. But at some point, it may be worth it to just get ahold of a mix-master shooter.

[Edward Tinker]

Your aluminum magazine is NOT a G or K date...
It is from later

- there are lots of retired military here - thanks for serving, and many of us lived in europe

play nice please - there is a big difference in MINT and used - it is NOT grammar police - just folks trying to help you

[danielsand]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Your aluminum magazine is NOT a G or K date...
It is from later

- there are lots of retired military here - thanks for serving, and many of us lived in europe

play nice please - there is a big difference in MINT and used - it is NOT grammar police - just folks trying to help you

Thank you,...... I changed the WTT add. Can't remember who told me it was "G' or "K".

As far as "MINT"......I wanted to say that the gun is PERFECT in terms of functionallity. I did not express myself right, but I thought it was obvious with the pictures, and I stated that the weapon has the worn finish in the later post. I did not mean to mislead anyone, and why would I? This thing is not offered for sale ANYWHERE, and what's to gain by mispresenting it's condition?

My first language is German. It was spoken at home until I started to go to school. I was born 8 years after my parents arrived in US (and ten years after the war), and taken out of US by the age of ten (returning only for the academy, and upon graduation, was sent right away back to Europe!). My elementary and highschool education was in Germany (in both languages). I apologize if I'm not expressing myself right.

Besides English and German, I speak Italian, Spanish, Russian, and Serbo-Croatian. I communicate with old friends, and family in all of those places on a daily basis, and I make mistakes in ALL of these languages (nobody holds it against me).

So if I post something that is not perfectly clear, I can always correct it if someone points it out (if it's important).

I am here to learn about the Parabellum 08, and it's accessories. I am not here to offend, confront, or quarrel with anyone in any way. From now on, I will mostly read, and limit my posts to minimmum.

Thank you all for the provided information.

[alanint]

You have a fascinating background, Daniel! Growing up in post war Germany must have been an experience. We look forward to your contributions!

Welcome aboard!

[lugerholsterrepair]

Ejector was #1, then F.P., extractor, and GRIPS! Search for it! I have broken all 3 of these over the years...A DWM extractor is very different from a Mauser one. Mauser really beefed them up.

[ithacaartist]

Didn't I see a comparison pic, somewhere, sometime, of a Swiss extractor vs. a standard? It showed the Swiss had a hole for the pin and the standard has a "crotch". The Swiss looked stronger. Which would be the strongest of all three designs--either the Mauser or the Swiss?

[lugerholsterrepair]

I think the Swiss if I am remembering correctly. The DWM has a very delicate hook holding in under the cross pin. Mauser beefed up this hook as it frequently broke off. I guess the Swiss took it to the next level.

[danielsand]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

It's easy enough to change out the parts most commonly broken before shooting, reserving the numbered originals. It will take around a hundred bucks to obtain them, but your heirs may appreciate this "insurance", as it will maintain its matching status and value, while shooting those 200 rounds. I also hope you know that a granddaughter would be just as good as a grandson!

Well,.....this is a GREAT idea, that I missed when it was posted! I WILL definitelly purchase extra parts that could present the problem in the future, hand fit them to the weapon, and fire away! Since I ALWAYS use factory ammo, I think the risk is minimized. I don't reload (no time), and I don't trust ANYONE'S reloads. 115gr FMJ (US makers) would do just fine IMHO.

My daughter LOVES shooting, riding, and everything in between. She grew up with her mother (long story, but the military guys would relate!), who is also a shooter. She is in some "fru-fru" college in the East, and I don't know who she will eventualy marry, and who will get his hands on my most valued items. Not to go into details, but I have a LOT of money in collectable firearms, so I want to make SURE they end up in the hands that can hold on to them.

In the end,....it doesn't really matter (when you're dead NOTHING matters), but I have a very STRONG attachment to all of my "babies", that I combed heaven and earth to acquire. Some served me well in three wars I was in,.... some saved my life. So I am hoping for a grandson! Call me oldfashioned, backward, biased,......I am probably all of the above!

Thanks for the advice about getting (and installing!) the replacements BEFORE something happens!